Overwatch

[Vaya]

Overwatch's ability to meld modern art and environments with old school-style levels is pretty much my favourite aspect of the game . keep up the good work guys!

[MikeGon]

@fewseb I like the point you're bringing about the roads, I agree that roads leading outside the map could add even more world-building in there. In fact it's there on a couple maps (King's row comes to mind, that gated road on the right immediately out of attacker spawn, also on Hollywood on the left side):

but i don't think that kind of stuff is critical at all, especially since they are situated in pretty much to the least visited areas on each map, because attackers sprint out of the spawn as fast as they can and this is quickly behind them...

(in fact people are so rarely playing there that its freaking hard for me to find screenshots of it! Good thing it's actually visible on the loading screen image for Hollywood )

 

[-HP-]

10 minutes ago, MikeGon said:

 

but i don't think that kind of stuff is critical at all, especially since they are situated in pretty much to the least visited areas on each map, because attackers sprint out of the spawn as fast as they can and this is quickly behind them...

(in fact people are so rarely playing there that its freaking hard for me to find screenshots of it! Good thing it's actually visible on the loading screen image for Hollywood )

 

Exactly, it's relatively away from the gameplay area.

 

[fewseb]

Listen I never said at any point the that the map would vastly improve with these small scene changes, and youre right, @[HP] invisible barriers should always be minimized, but as was pointed out, there are several areas that already do blocked off out of map scenery, I also think you kind of missed the irony here

1 hour ago, [HP] said:

OW maps are very small, so any opportunity to show a backdrop is a golden opportunity because it makes the environment look bigger than it is, it makes it look expansive and vistas are usually a lot better to look at than a pile of rubble.

 

17 minutes ago, [HP] said:

24 minutes ago, MikeGon said:

 

Exactly, it's relatively away from the gameplay area.

These areas are so far out of the way from being noticeable I dont see how it would be any different visually if you replaced the vista with a road, sacrificing one vista that is hardly seen for making a location believable is a fair trade off in my eyes. I could maybe see how the canyon could get messier, but if the fallen rock are the same shade as the canyon walls, I dont agree that it would be all that different form the canyon vista.

I also understand why the roads and streets and paths are like that, I get that its a guiding line for the players to follow, acting like any side path that branches out to nowhere will confuse the players just kind of seems like dumb logic, one of the most basic tenants of level design is drawing the players eye, I cant imagine a team of professional level designers couldnt somehow figure out how to make side paths that dont distract the player but add to the world of the map .

This is also a symptom a larger problem OW maps seem to have, and ive got to ask, why are so many maps seemingly set on a large artificial plateau with a death pit on all sides of the map, Junkertown, Oasis, eichenwalde, Numbani, Castillo and Black Forest to name the most obvious examples.

1 hour ago, [HP] said:

You're all about realism

No im not, im about details, details that make a world or a map or anything believable, when the gameplay stops being fun in any game I start to notice all the little things that make the world less believable, these arnt critical flaws in the maps, but its surprising to see the same mistake? design philosophy? art choice? done again and again and again.

 

I also dont want to come of as a douche here, you guys do this for a living, you know way more then me and probably put a ton of time into these projects to make them the best they can be, but this is my two cents here, as someone who really used to dig the game, it just feels like somethings wrong when Havana immediately blends together with Paris and Rialto in my head less then a second after I see it.

[FMPONE]

9 hours ago, fewseb said:

But why does a map called Route 66, not actually have a Route 66? I mean sure they can spam that sign prop all they want, but its not a route if it goes directly into a shipping warehouse with no other turnoffs. How hard would have been to get rid of that worthless and nonsensical deathpit over by the defenses first spawn, and just have the road continue on with a barrier in front of it. The road to the warehouse would be a turn off instead of being the one place the Route goes.

Lol.

[fewseb]

2 hours ago, FMPONE said:

Lol.

Its true ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

4 hours ago, Pericolos0 said:

I think you figured out yourself why not more attention was spent on making the maps believable layout wise: it's not a critical flaw. So why spend time on it when you are working under a deadline and have plenty of other things to spend creative energy on?

How much time could it take, you either work on the vista or you work on a road, both take time both and I would presume would be satisfying to work on. I would argue a vista takes more time because you have to work on a unique skyline, as apposed to a road where you can copy and paste some background buildings. Its really just down to the map maker and what they like more, clearly whom ever it is that actually does the art pass prefers the Vistas, if it was me I would do background roads or side paths, but im not the guy working for the AAA game studio, im a hobbyist at best and I dont want to tell these guys how to do their job, I just wanted to know why they do things the way they do. 

[FMPONE]

6 minutes ago, fewseb said:

Its true ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

How much time could it take, you either work on the vista or you work on a road, both take time both and I would presume would be satisfying to work on. I would argue a vista takes more time because you have to work on a unique skyline, as apposed to a road where you can copy and paste some background buildings. Its really just down to the map maker and what they like more, clearly whom ever it is that actually does the art pass prefers the Vistas, if it was me I would do background roads or side paths, but im not the guy working for the AAA game studio, im a hobbyist at best and I dont want to tell these guys how to do their job, I just wanted to know why they do things the way they do. 

It’s not a bad point per se but it’s a game and a pretty silly game at that, the emphasis is more on the mood and evoking the sensation of being in a theme parky attraction rather than a realistic place.

I think you make an OK point, part of environment art is not being totally lazy about tying it to layout but earnestly critiquing a great, fun level like Route 66 by pointing out that it doesn’t really resemble a road is bordering on copy pasta. I’m here for it though, keep going, petty criticism is still criticism and it can be pretty amusing to read.

[fewseb]

9 minutes ago, FMPONE said:

I think you make an OK point, part of environment art is not being totally lazy about tying it to layout but earnestly critiquing a great, fun level like Route 66 by pointing out that it doesn’t really resemble a road is bordering on copy pasta. I’m here for it though, keep going, petty criticism is still criticism and it can be pretty amusing to read.

Route 66 is one of my favorite maps from Overwatch, when I played the game did I care that the road led to a warehouse? No because I was having fun, because its a fun level. Literally the only complaint I have about the theme for the map is just that, its not a real road and it doesnt make a lot sense when you think about it. I dont consider the absurd walkways all around the map a negative because its consistent across most maps and thematically matches the town, they arnt likely to actually exist but they are believable.

Aside from my first post about Havana, I dont think ive been that unreasonable in asking why they do things like that, why there are just a few glaring flaws that make the map unbelievable when you think about it. The game isnt absurdist like TF2, it trys to keep a sense of being grounded in the real world (despite the electric monkeys and engineer hamsters that jump around miles in the air) we are supposed to care about whats happening in this universe the game is set in, things are at the very least supposed to be plausible.

 

[RaVaGe]

ITT : Amateurs teaching top-tier LD how to make maps.

[RaVaGe]

OFC it's a valid criticism, it's just his way of developing his point that makes him looks overly pretentious, each game has its own flaw, balancing gameplay and art has never been an easy task, especially when there's a huge time constrains behind it, and I think Overwatch is doing a great job at it, now ofc I always thought route 66 never really made any sense, but look at Badwater for example, its layout make no sense at all either, yet it's one of the best map ever created imo.

Gameplay > Art > Logic.

[fewseb]

6 minutes ago, RaVaGe said:

OFC it's a valid criticism, it's just his way of developing his point that makes him looks overly pretentious, each game has its own flaw, balancing gameplay and art has never been an easy task, especially when there's a huge time constrains behind it, and I think Overwatch is doing a great job at it, now ofc I always thought route 66 never really made any sense, but look at Badwater for example, its layout make no sense at all either, yet it's one of the best map ever created imo.

Gameplay > Art > Logic.

Fair enough, but badwater is a tf2 map, tf2 doesn't take it self seriously, its absurdist. Overwatch is supposed to be grounded in reality, no matter how much science fantasy they throw at it, its not parody of the real world, it meant to be an idealistic future. I appreciate @Pericolos0 going into detail into how such a visual error occurred and the process they went through making Route 66.

Also badwater, like most TF2 maps can get away with the ridiculous nature of the layout because its set in an industrial sprawl, plus it has plenty of inaccessible areas to show off the world around it which helps make it more real despite the absurdist nature of the game.

[MikeGon]

YOOOOOOOOOO GUYS

 

[Minos]

I'm so happy we finally got this out! I can't wait to see all the cool stuff people are going to come up with!!

[ElectroSheep]

This guy sure talk a lot 

[Beck]

Saw someone on Reddit has already made Gun Game and silver surfer Mei. Pretty awesome!