Dahell is happening in Kiev

[RaVaGe]

The fuck, two WW and apparently nobody get the lesson, fuck those governements, how in hell can you start a war between two superpowers, while we have the nuclear weapons and all, those fuckers are going to destroy us.

[-HP-]

German chancellor Angela Merkel told US president Barack Obama in a phone call that after speaking with Russian president Vladimir Putin, she feared he may be “in another world.”

“She was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. ‘In another world,’ she said,” the New York Times reported."

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-russia-control-crimea-live

 

jebus

[knj]

Don't know why someone is making such a long read about "why russia is entering Ukraine" - it's kinda simple. Putin is VERY fucking smart. It was him who made ukrainian government stall from joining EU (not directly, but he did lend them HUGE money). Basicly, he did know what ukrainian ppl want, he know that most of the country wants to be in EU, and thats why he was doing what he could not to let that happend. After shit got real, and situation in Kiev and all over the country started to be very dangerous, Putin is sending russian troops to "help" them create a new stronger government - but he really wants to get old post soviets lands and he will cut the Ukraine in half. I really hope that west and UE wont try enter this military conflict cause this can cause some reall all over globe shit

Do you really think that this shit in Ukraine and Olympics in Sochi are a coincidence ?

Edited March 3, 2014 by knj

[-HP-]

Don't know why someone is making such a long read about "why russia is entering Ukraine" - it's kinda simple. Putin is VERY fucking smart. 

 

[Sentura]

Thanks HP, I will remember to check out reactiongifs.com when I need a reaction gif.

[Pampers]

Russia is mostly just interested in the important port in Sevastopol, they've only sort of rented it from Ukraine, and had to report any troop activity. And with Ukraine getting rid of their pro-Russian goverment they faced the risk of not getting access to that strategic port at all. It's a risky power play and have been very expensive so far, as their currency and stock market have dropped significantly after they moved into Crimea.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Pampers

[Warby]

i am too dumb to have an opinion about any of this.

[-HP-]

[D3ads]

The news in this is moving so fast, I've barely had time to check latest updates outside of local media, I'm trying to catch up before bedtime...

 

About the ultimatum: Ukrainian forces that are resisting have been ordered not to fire a shot, so if they are forced to surrender, they might just hopefully be overwhelmed, beaten up and disarmed without loss of life, because all parties know it only takes one shot to bring chaos. I hope that it isn't true anyway, Moscow is denying it and so far only the two ships within the Ukrainian defence Ministry are quoted to have claimed this. We'll see after 3am GMT I guess...

 

Poland concern over the situation - Understandable but probably an overreaction since it's unlikely that Russia will move outside of the Crimea.

 

Yanukovich is NOT pro-Russian, this is one of those stupid simplicities in the media that gets up my nose. Viktor is pro-Viktor, he's only been interested in futhering his own goals, like making lots of money for himself and his son and living off the wealth brought on by the oligarchs. He's simply been a useful idiot for Moscow, because of Eastern roots in Donetsk. There has never been a pro-Russian leader in Ukraine, which is why the country overwhelmingly voted for independence in 1991. If there was ever a movement that was pro-Russian (except for the Crimea), they wouldn't have become their own state.

 

It's pretty debatable if Yanukovich's dismissal was ilegal. Pretty much as soon as the agreement was signed, the Rada was surrounded by a mob of Right Sector and Svoboda members that gave the parliament till 10am the next morning for Viktor to resign or they would storm the building with force. Yanukovich fled (reported to have been threatened and shot at). So it could be argued that those politicians once faithful to Yanukovich had to vote against him under diress. Under the constitution, a president can only be impeached if they commit treason or another crime and there has to be evidence to support it. I've got no time for Yanukovich, he's a cunt, but cunt or not, there is a proper process to follow. Very shaky ground there.

 

I think Pampers is partly right in the motives for Crimea, they certainly would be worried about losing the Black Sea Fleet I'm sure, this is one of Putin's red lines (unlike Obama, Putin's red lines actually mean something) and although the previous administration gave them until 2042 to remain in Sevastopol, it doesn't mean the new government can't cancel that.

 

Whilst I certainly don't support this madness, can I just say that I think it's fucking LOL tastic that we in the West are talking about "international law" and "breach of territorial sovereignty" given past performances in Iraq, Kosovo, Libya etc. Also the "Budapest Memorandum" everyone keeps talking about is not valid because the US congress never ratified it, the signatures are not valid... it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

 

I thought more about Russia's reasons for this the other day. Once upon a time, after the cold war, Gorbachev agreed to reunite Germany on the promise that NATO would not expand into the East. Fast forward to today and pretty much all of the Warsaw Pact Countries are part of NATO, several bordering with Russia. Out of all the countries in Europe that border with Russia, only four of them (Finland, Belarus, Georgia and Ukraine) are not in the treaty. Putin has constantly hinted that what the West does within it's own sphere is it's own business and whilst he may complain about it, there wont be any action... but... if you shit in the Bear's woods, you can expect to get bitten.

 

Ukraine is not Russia's backyard.. it is very much the frontyard and Putin will not tolerate inteference that goes against it's own interests and security. Given part of the parliament's desires to join NATO (another red line), I can kind of see why the action has been taken. Still doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.

 

For now Russia has taken the Crimea without any resistance or bloodshed, hopefully it stays that way.

 

Oh yeah and now we're talking about economic sanctions... remember when the US sanctioned Egypt for gunning down Muslim Brotherhood supporters en masse in the streets? Yeah me neither

Edited March 4, 2014 by D3ads

[D3ads]

 

Just hangin' out with the invasion forces... Polite people with polite guns and polite manner...

[ZZZ]

This is sad. Ukraine has beautiful forests and beautiful architecture. And the olympic athletes are very famous.

[knj]

 

Just hangin' out with the invasion forces... Polite people with polite guns and polite manner...

Let's just hope this will last long

[FMPONE]

 

 

 

 

Thank you for that helpful quote. Really puts things into context for me. 

[Thrik]

I did quite enjoy reading D3's posts about this, it's good to hear a more informed opinion rather than hysteria. Also very interesting how quickly this has evolved way past mere clashes between police and protesters, and now we're looking at the risk of full-scale war. Amazing how history can be made.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure those photos of the civilians and soldiers living in harmony are propaganda, lol.

[Thrik]

Looks like those photos came from Russia's RT.com, dubbed the 'Putin Propaganda Network', lmao.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/rt-coverage-of-ukraine-2014-3