Corona Virus

[Minos]

9 hours ago, st0lve said:

"The briefing says that the frequency of Bell’s Palsy in the vaccine group is “consistent with the expected background rate in the general population”, adding there is “no clear basis upon which to conclude a causal relationship at this time”. The FDA said it would, however, recommend “surveillance” for cases of Bell’s Palsy as the vaccine is sent out to larger groups of people."

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pfizer-health-concerns-idUSKBN28K2R6

It happens every day that people get a flu shot and turn up with half of their face paralyzed after right? 

This is not meant to poke you or anything, it's just a general thought... No amount of assurance from public officials and scientists (who all have their own interests/agenda to behold) will change the fact that this vaccine was rushed out of the gate, and all caution is being thrown out of the window now. Scientists act as if they have everything figured out (they don't), politicians act as if they have the people's best interests in mind (they don't), and people act as if they could control the forces of nature (we can't).

The people who claim that people who refuse this vaccine are selfish, completely miss the point. If one feels like taking a covid vaccine, sure go for it. It should prevent one from getting covid right? So why bother if others don't take it?

It's incredible the amount of bullshit agendas that are being advanced in the name of "science", "public safety", "democracy", or whatever else.

[ThunderKeil]

6 hours ago, Minos said:

The people who claim that people who refuse this vaccine are selfish, completely miss the point. If one feels like taking a covid vaccine, sure go for it. It should prevent one from getting covid right? So why bother if others don't take it?

Herd immunity. Immunocompromised people may be unable to take the vaccine themselves, or it may not be effective in them, and population-wide immunity can stop the virus from spreading to them.

That's what all the antivax drama has been about for years now, ngl I'm genuinely surprised you'd not know that

[blackdog]

13 hours ago, Minos said:

It's incredible the amount of bullshit agendas that are being advanced in the name of "science", "public safety", "democracy", or whatever else.

I do agree with this, I know we weren’t prepared for pandemics but jee, the response from the governments were ridiculous.

Ive just read yday in Italy they not sure who’s gonna teach in school last couple days because they are enforcing a travel ban within the country two days BEFORE the holidays. Many teachers come from the south and will go back early then… fucking genius

PS and we have to suck up and comply with all this, whilst them politicians and advisors do whatever they want, getting businesses to open just for them, seeing family and friends…

Edited December 12, 2020 by blackdog

[st0lve]

I have stuffed my body with enough dangerous things already, that I can't see how I rationally can be scared of a vaccine... And it's not like I am smart enough to break down the contents of the vaccine and make a sound judgement of what's good for me or not, which is why I simply have to trust my local Government and healthcare professionals (which is no issue for me, I'm Norwegian).

There is what, 4 vaccines at roughly the same stage and effectiveness by now? I don't find it weird how they have been developed so fast. Basically breaking down the entire worlds economy will make things a top priority, in this case a Covid vaccine. Some of these vaccines are without private ownership as far as I understand as well, which means that unless you think Germany has some seriously bad country-agenda, then I'll give them the benefit of doubt.

And yes, the importance of vaccines is herd immunity so that the vaccines even have an effect. So personally, if there is an vaccine available at low/no cost, I think it's selfish to not take it.

[RaVaGe]

Quote

There is what, 4 vaccines at roughly the same stage and effectiveness by now?

Right now there's too few data to prove the advertised promotion of effectiveness from the vaccines.

I'm not anti-vaccines at all btw.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/11/investing/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-stock-sale-vaccine/index.html

Now when you see things like that, it just change the way you perceive things, governments keep repeating the same mistakes, first was with remdesivir, now with those vaccines. I'm just more and more skeptical about the intentions of the big pharma companies and governments by seeing how this crisis has been so poorly handled this year.

There's simply too much money at stake, having CEO's acting like that during a crisis just shows what's trully important here. Having a guy who failed to manage virus issues on the OS system he created, and who is now the main contributor of the WHO and heavily promotes vaccination is also a bit funny if you ask me, without going in any sorts of complotist theories, it just feels weird.

I'll just wait I guess.

[dux]

1 hour ago, st0lve said:

I have stuffed my body with enough dangerous things already, that I can't see how I rationally can be scared of a vaccine...

St0lve the keith richards of mapcore.

[tomm]

 

[Minos]

I'm not anti-vaccine, I just think this whole affair is being handled in a very reckless manner, and at the same time, there are all kinds of agendas being shoved down everyone's throats in the middle of the confusion. We live in a time of excessive information, of hyperreality, where the online/information world is more "real" than reality itself. Most of the information we consume is carefully orchestrated by varied interests. It's very hard to have independent thought, make your own decisions, and not be "punished" if your decisions fall outside mainstream consensus. (the basis of a free world)

Here's an interesting piece of information. I'm a regular reader of CNBC, sometimes they have useful financial information in there. I've been seeing this Dr. Scott Gottlieb appear live all the time, being presented as a big authority on the pandemic, etc... I did a quick google search this is what his wikipedia says about him:

Quote

Scott Gottlieb (born June 11, 1972) is an American physician and investor who served as the 23rd commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from 2017 until April 2019. He is presently a resident fellow at the conservative think tank the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a partner at the venture capital firm New Enterprise Associates (NEA),^[1] [2] a member of the board of directors of drug maker Pfizer, Inc,^[3] and a contributor to the cable financial news network CNBC. Before becoming FDA commissioner, he was a clinical assistant professor at New York University School of Medicine, the FDA deputy commissioner for medical and scientific affairs, a venture partner with New Enterprise Associates, a member of the policy board of the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, a senior official at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, and a member of the Federal Health Information Technology Policy Committee, which advises the United States Department of Health and Human Services on healthcare information technology. He was previously a resident fellow at AEI from 2007 to 2017 prior to joining the FDA as commissioner in May 2017.

So this guy is at the same time: Former FDA chief, venture capitalist and investor in CNBC, board member at PFizer and a resident fellow at a think tank with a long history of involvement in shaping the public narrative. How can one believe he is presenting information that have the public's best interest in mind, when he has so much to gain from pushing a very very specific agenda? This is the kind of people who suppress contradictory information that doesn't fall into their view of reality. The current landscape is filled with such figures dictating public policies, and using this pandemic to advance their own personal causes.

Anyway, here's a good read about the vaccine itself:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-questions-social-distance-mask-transmission
 

Spoiler

 

What’s more, neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine trials tested whether the vaccines prevent people from being infected with the virus. Those trials, instead, focused on whether people were shielded from developing disease symptoms. That means that it’s not clear whether vaccinated people could still develop asymptomatic infections — and thus still be able to spread the virus to others.

Q: Will people still need to still wear a mask and socially distance after being vaccinated? A: Yes. It takes several weeks to build up vaccine-induced antibodies and other immune defenses, and both vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna require a booster dose 21 to 28 days after the first dose. So the full protection offered by the vaccines would take at least a month to develop. And since the vaccines don’t work perfectly, and it’s not known yet to what extent they prevent infection, it’s possible that a vaccinated person might get the virus and be able to pass it on to others.

 

 

[RaVaGe]

2 hours ago, Minos said:

I'm not anti-vaccine, I just think this whole affair is being handled in a very reckless manner, and at the same time, there are all kinds of agendas being shoved down everyone's throats in the middle of the confusion. We live in a time of excessive information, of hyperreality, where the online/information world is more "real" than reality itself. Most of the information we consume is carefully orchestrated by varied interests. It's very hard to have independent thought, make your own decisions, and not be "punished" if your decisions fall outside mainstream consensus. (the basis of a free world)

Here's an interesting piece of information. I'm a regular reader of CNBC, sometimes they have useful financial information in there. I've been seeing this Dr. Scott Gottlieb appear live all the time, being presented as a big authority on the pandemic, etc... I did a quick google search this is what his wikipedia says about him:

So this guy is at the same time: Former FDA chief, venture capitalist and investor in CNBC, board member at PFizer and a resident fellow at a think tank with a long history of involvement in shaping the public narrative. How can one believe he is presenting information that have the public's best interest in mind, when he has so much to gain from pushing a very very specific agenda? This is the kind of people who suppress contradictory information that doesn't fall into their view of reality. The current landscape is filled with such figures dictating public policies, and using this pandemic to advance their own personal causes.

Anyway, here's a good read about the vaccine itself:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-questions-social-distance-mask-transmission
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

What’s more, neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine trials tested whether the vaccines prevent people from being infected with the virus. Those trials, instead, focused on whether people were shielded from developing disease symptoms. That means that it’s not clear whether vaccinated people could still develop asymptomatic infections — and thus still be able to spread the virus to others.

Q: Will people still need to still wear a mask and socially distance after being vaccinated? A: Yes. It takes several weeks to build up vaccine-induced antibodies and other immune defenses, and both vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna require a booster dose 21 to 28 days after the first dose. So the full protection offered by the vaccines would take at least a month to develop. And since the vaccines don’t work perfectly, and it’s not known yet to what extent they prevent infection, it’s possible that a vaccinated person might get the virus and be able to pass it on to others.

 

 

Minos stop thinking and listen to the experts

 

[dux]

This thread:

[ThunderKeil]

21 hours ago, Minos said:

Most of the information we consume is carefully orchestrated by varied interests. It's very hard to have independent thought, make your own decisions, and not be "punished" if your decisions fall outside mainstream consensus. (the basis of a free world)

It's easier when you haven't engaged in social media since 2008

Tangentially related; Joe Biden filling his cabinet with Google and Facebook employees after they've spent months burying negative coverage & blatantly censoring people questioning the election @dux

Edited December 15, 2020 by ThunderKeil

[dux]

1 hour ago, ThunderKeil said:

Tangentially related; Joe Biden filling his cabinet with Google and Facebook employees after they've spent months burying negative coverage & blatantly censoring people questioning the election @dux

No different than any other president or person in power. All of them have hired shady people. And the whole election fraud thing is ridiculous.

[blackdog]

Friend of ours tested positive. Apparently she got it from the child minder.

I met up with her partner for a daddy walk 4 days before she tested positive, and my partner met the friend just hours outside the 48h window they tell infected people to alert people they met. So we are self-isolating even if strictly taking we aren’t required… doesn’t make much of a difference, we are pretty much in lockdown anyway.

[kleinluka]

It is not possible to achieve herd immunity without vaccination. It certainly has never been done.

The vaccine has now been given to millions of people (one of my friends in Germany got his 1st shot of the Pfizer vaccine today). The number of severe adverse reactions can be counted on one (max 2 hands) I believe. That is definitely in line with other vaccines and other medications available on the market. Honestly, the side effects of covid are already known and are much much worse.

As for long-term side effects. I read a very interesting article about this by a virologist (I can't find it as I am posting this)... but the way it was explained (and I am badly paraphrasing) was basically that based on how this type of vaccine works, the ingredients in the vaccine dissipate in your body very early on so it's not even possible for the vaccine to cause problems years down the line. The jab's main job is to trigger an antibody/immune response and provide instructions on how to fight the virus if it enters the body. When that is achieved, the actual vaccine itself basically dissolves in your body. Again, I am really badly paraphrasing what the original quote was, but that is essentially how it works.

Also, I repeat again that the vaccine was not "rushed" out the door as some are claiming. The safety trials were completed satisfactorily. The reason it feels like it was rushed is because in normal vaccine development the stages take much longer to pass as they aren't being pumped full of money by literally every country on the planet.

 

I will be taking the shot as soon as I can. For those of you who choose not to, that's certainly your choice. Just know you are contributing to the global community not achieving herd immunity. I also imagine you will be restricted from getting certain services, or entering certain public places, and rightly so.

 

 

[-HP-]

1 hour ago, kleinluka said:

I also imagine you will be restricted from getting certain services, or entering certain public places, and rightly so.