Puddy's Gun Review (of Freedom)

[Puddy]

Oh hey there! Didn't see you come in. So you want to spread freedom? Well, you came to right place. I wanted to spread freedom too, so I went to a gun club with a few of my coworkers while I was in America. Here are my weapon reviews. In all seriousness, a lot of us make action games and it was actually really helpful to handle a few guns in real life. I can definitely recommend it - even if you are like me and don't necessarily want to make "realistic" games. I'll start with a handgun review and get back with the heavier artillery later. 

Handguns

From start to finish: P226 --- Glock 19 --- Beretta 92FS --- CZ75 --- S&W 357 Magnum --- Colt .45 Variant (don't know exactly... what am I, some nerd?)

What I learned: Handguns are much, much harder to fire accurately compared to rifles. A pistol is held in front of you and it is up to you as a shooter to keep it steady and pointed straight (easier said than done - you'd be surprised). In a lot of games, the iron sights of a pistol are just glued to the center of the screen - even when moving. If I designed handgun mechanics I would consider putting more emphasis on weapon sway (similar to Last of Us) and maybe include an option to hold breath - which is usually reserved for sniper rifles in games. 

Review: Most of the pistols were very similar in how they handled. There are a few subtle differences. The Glock, which uses a plastic weapon slide where the other handguns have a metal one, had a very jerky kick after each shot - it was easy to get back on target though. The 357 revolver was a lot of fun to fire but you were reminded that revolvers are highly impractical, with a low capacity and slow reload (reload animations for revolvers in games are consistent and fast, something I think is hard to do in real life and under pressure). My absolute favourite was the Colt .45, it just felt right. It had an easily-loaded magazine, but only holds 7 rounds. The kick was hard but manageable.
 

I'll be back with: Assault Rifles, Battle Rifles and Other Weapons!

[jackophant]

Excellent

I had so much fun when I went to one of these places in Florida (near a prison, seems safe right?). I was able to fire the P226 9mm, Thompson, fully auto .45 and my lifetime achievement: The Desert Eagle .50AE (which had an extended barrel, making it look more like a bloody rifle!).

[General Vivi]

MURICAAAWWWWWW

[leplubodeslapin]

Ahahaahahaha xD

Man this is crazy but i love it, so cool!

I tried a glock with a friend by firing blanks (i don't know the exact translation but you know the sort of bullet without projectile) and i was surprised to see that the weight of the gun helped to remain steady, it was quite easy to aim i thought (but much harder than a riffle i believe). And it was blank bullets so probably not the same thing, lower force.

I'd love to try this like you did, can't wait for the second part!

[FMPONE]

"You talkin' to me?"

\

[Puddy]

Okay, while I'm digesting my lunch I'll get to part 2:

Assault Rifles

From left to right: M4 (tested with ironsights, red dot and ACOG) --- IMI Tavor (red dot) --- Steyr Aug (red dot)

What I learned: Assault Rifles are really, really easy to fire. The weight and ergonomics of the weapon help you to keep it lined up and helps control the recoil. Of the three rifles above, the two on the right, the Tavor and the Aug, are bullpup assault rifles. This means that the magazine/firing mechanism is behind the trigger, which leads to a shorter and more compact weapon (without sacrificing barrel length). You instantly realize that ergonomically, this is not ideal. The weapon becomes rear-heavy and very clunky if you want to hold it with one hand (during a reload for example). Furthermore, reloads are slowed down cause the magazine is a bit awkwardly placed near your armpit. More knowledgeable firearm experts have the same sentiment. In game balance terms, bullpups should probably be balanced to be better at being more maneuverable and accurate (compact size with long barrel) with their weakness being reload speed primarily.

Review: The M4 has to be one of the best weapons ergonomically that I have tried. It is very easy to grip and aim with and reloads are super-smooth. I tried aiming using iron sights, a red dot sight and the ACOG sight. The red dot sight made it incredibly fast to aim the weapon and get a clear target picture. The ACOG, which is a scope, was incredible easy to use. You did not have to try and find the "sweetspot" where things aren't blurry, you immediately found it and saw everything crystal clear. Of the bullpups I was more impressed with the Steyr AUG. It was pretty comfy to use even if the magazine was a bit clunky to load - but it wasn't too bad (the Tavor was terrible). Oh, and the fucking recoil on the AUG. It was very peculiar. It wasn't a sharp, jerky recoil but more of a smooth movement that was very easy to control. It was very, very strange and everyone who tried it commented on it. 

More coming!

[FrieChamp]

I can't wait for him to get to the LAW Rocket Launcher.

[Beck]

I've shot some guns previously in Europe. It's a lot of fun but also scary as hell. If you're not careful you can really hurt/ kill someone.

I'd agree with you on the pistols. They are pretty hard to keep on target! One little bit of info I never knew before shooting was about the revolver type weapons. We were warned to keep our hands away from the mechanism since there's actually nothing to stop the blast from the bullet from burning you pretty badly. Since there's a gap behind the mechanism some of the hot gases escape behind there. 

You really see it when shooting too.

We also shot a pump action shotgun, I can't remember the type, but damn it felt manly to load in another shell  Funnily (Stupidly) the owner gave us 4 normal shells and one high powered shell. He didn't tell us about the high powered shell, he just put them in so we'd get them on our last shots. Needless to say some of us ended up on our asses!

[Puddy]

Beck: Word! You cannot hold your hand near the gaps surrounding the cylinder. Gas WILL escape! Anyhow, now it's time for...

Battle Rifles/Heavy Assault Rifles/Designated Marksman Rifles (take your pick)

From left to right: FN FAL --- SCAR H --- M14 --- Dragunov (american copy)

What I learned: These guns, which fire full rifle cartridges (7.62×51mm NATO for the first three and 7.62×54mmR for the Dragunov), pack a seeeerious punch. Getting quick follow-up shots is much harder as the sights jump up quite a bit after each shot, much more so than regular assault rifles. Some of these weapons support full-auto, but you need to be an experienced shooter to control it and even then you will likely opt to stay in semi-auto. Most of these weapons are older and were designed in the 50's and 60's, which is noticeable as a lot of the sights, mag-release buttons, levers and/or handles are a bit clunky and don't have that modern touch. The exception here is the SCAR H which is very user-friendly and is pretty much a beefed up M4. The way games portray these weapons hit the mark for the most part, except perhaps in some games where their full-auto mode is a bit too controllable.

Review: Of this batch, my favourites are the the SCAR and the Dragunov. The SCAR works really well because it's a modern rifle and it just feels right at home in your hands. The Dragunov is an AK-derivative that is remarkably timeless and I thought it handled well. The M14 was pretty nice too, but the reload is a bit trickier, I like it's character though. I absolutely hated the FN FAL as it had the most annoying iron sights I've tried (which were hard to even use when you were wearing hearing protection) and the reload, safety and fire selection felt really clunky and outdated. 

 

[Sprony]

Bookmarked this thread for it's pure awesomeness!

[Puddy]

Bookmarked this thread for it's pure awesomeness!

 Well, I won't keep you waiting for the last part! 

Assorted Weapons

From left to right: Winchester Rifle (lever action rifle) --- Lee Enfield (British WW2 bolt action) --- K98 (German WW2 bolt action) --- Remington 870 (pump action shotgun)

What I learned: These weapons are a bit mixed, so I'll specify which lessons apply to what weapon. One thing that unifies all of them is that you DO NOT want to be reloading them under pressure. All weapons are loaded on a shell/bullet basis except the bolt action rifles which can be loaded using clips (which aren't really user-friendly either). Since games mostly loop a perfectly swift reload animation, you can sometimes get fooled into thinking the reloads are relatively painless. Also, follow up shots were tricky with all guns except the shotgun as it is hard to keep aiming while doing the lever action and it is nigh impossible when working the bolt action. Also, the recoil of the bolt action rifles wasn't as bad as I thought and their weight and sturdiness helped to keep them stable. 

From a game design perspective, you can definitely look at what the action (pump/lever/bolt) does to the player's aim (should the sights just be glued to the center of the screen or should they move/sway while performing the action). Also, the time inconsistencies when loading these types of weapons can also be looked at and in a game the reload time could perhaps be influenced by player skill or simply be adjusted with small, random time variations (so each bullet/shell doesn't take the exact same time to load). Depends on what game you are making. In a lot of games you just want it to be looped and consistent. They're games after all.  These kind of advanced mechanics are maybe best reserved for realistic games and survival horror ("ah, shit shit come on get the last shell in").

Review: Working the actions of all of these weapons was incredibly satisfying but my favourites were definitely the bolt action rifles and the shotgun, especially the former - there's just something about bolt action rifles (Call of Duty 2 nostalgia)! Of the bolt action rifles, I definitely preferred the german engineering of the K98. Much easier to load new rounds, it felt better to hold and the sights were a bit easier to use. The R870 shotgun was soooo much fun to use. We only fired slugs, which are one solid projectile, as opposed to buckshot, which is a bunch of smaller pellets. The recoil was fucking intense.  And seeing the smoke evaporate and a spent shell casing flying out after each "pump" was so badass. The Winchester was fun but I thought it lacked a bit of kick - after all, it fires a relatively small round.

 

Anyhow, that concludes my reviews, I hope you've enjoyed reading 'em!  

[jackophant]

It's a shame in the dragunov video, the recording doesn't do justice to how loud these things are.

A guy swaggered into the range we were in and started firing off rounds from some sort of M4, and it was making me wince through my ear protection.

[Puddy]

Yup, a mobile phone can not in any way capture the oomph of the heavier rifles. At the range most people were firing handguns and when we fired the first dragunov-round everyone flinched and turned their heads. :D

[Puddy]

That's not a Dragunov SVD btw, its a VEPR by the looks of it. The difference being the VEPR is an AK variant while the Dragunov is an exclusive design. Both are cool rifles nonetheless.

Yes, that's true, it was casually called a dragunov in the store but the look of the top cover supports your theory.

[st0lve]

This thread is cool!

My only comment is on the rifle section: The main downside with most bullpup designs is the horrible triggers as they aren't "direct" connected to the release of the hammer, which means that you'll have a shitty grouping because of this. I've seen some stupid fast reloads with bullpups, and I think they actually are quicker than traditional platforms after a bit of training since they require less movement. Keep in mind that a (really) fast reload for an M4 is still around 2 seconds from shot to shot..

And ACOGs do have eye relief, ie it's not just to get in there. Depending on the model, it's usually 1.5" (that means your eye is 1.5" from the scope) up to 2.5" in some cases. I suspect you just got lucky with the placement of the optic or the shape of your head

The Scar 17/H is an interesting weapon, and it's recoil pulse is also unique. I don't know if it applies to all Scars, but the one I've shot was stupid accurate at 400m without match ammo and with me shooting it...

 

Any subguns or machine guns? They are probably my favorite things to shoot that doesn't involve some type of rocket or explosives.