Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

[blackdog]

I'm just thinking: you want the game to be a sport? Than apply sport rules: players are punished when they don't follow the rules.

[Vaya]

@blackdog It's a bit of a weird one. It's not exactly against the flow of the game - it's the equivalent of saying 'no jumping when someone is shooting at you'

 

Valve may seem to be patchwork fixing the game but it may be the only option open to them on source.

[SirK]

The crouchspamming was a big problem in CS:S if i remember correctly. For example: you could hit crouch multiple times behind the crate on d2 b-site. The enemy couldnt see your head while entering from tunnel and you could hit them.

[Klems]

7 hours ago, blackdog said:

I'm just thinking: you want the game to be a sport? Than apply sport rules: players are punished when they don't follow the rules.

The rules are the actual rules of the game (the engine and gamemode), not some things you made up because you think it's unfair. You're going to ban someone because they got too creative at your game? When the fault is clearly in the game engine? How fucked up is that? You're everything wrong with game developpers these days.

CS 1.6 already had a good solution anyway, this video clearly shows the problem.

 

[Jetsetlemming]

Really, the proper solution is to kill the exploitable problem in the first place. I don't have the kind of hitbox issues in any other game I play. I dunno if Source 2 fixes them by using more reliable bounding boxes or something, but I hope so. Some of the historical stuff Valve's still invested in is good, like BSP, but some areas other companies have made a lot of legit progress in, like online systems.

[DrywallDreams]

Just now, Jetsetlemming said:

Really, the proper solution is to kill the exploitable problem in the first place. I don't have the kind of hitbox issues in any other game I play. I dunno if Source 2 fixes them by using more reliable bounding boxes or something, but I hope so. Some of the historical stuff Valve's still invested in is good, like BSP, but some areas other companies have made a lot of legit progress in, like online systems.

There is no exploitable problem, though.  The issue with hitboxes/hitcapsules in the current live version of the game is that player's angles don't update properly when a player is stationary, there isn't any bug with crouching.  

[blackdog]

7 hours ago, Klems said:

The rules are the actual rules of the game (the engine and gamemode), not some things you made up because you think it's unfair. You're going to ban someone because they got too creative at your game? When the fault is clearly in the game engine? How fucked up is that? You're everything wrong with game developpers these days.

CS 1.6 already had a good solution anyway, this video clearly shows the problem.

 

That's not exactly the concept I wanted to express.

I'm talking about sportsmanship as a player. I don't call creative an idiotic being who's only means to success is to cheat and bypass the normal flow of the game.

i never spawn camped in DoD for eg.

Yes rules are those that are coded in, but afaik there are rules for tournaments that cover sportsmanship and behaviour (no pixel walking  or peeking through NODRAW textures etc).

Also the game features a voting system for annoying players. (Hence recognising the concept of unfair play)

What I said in the first place is that it's stupid to code a system that monitors a buggy/lousy  implementation, instead of fixing  the underlying problem (leave aside the argument of actual current problem with hitboxes), because that eventually opens up to more exploiting.

That means: let people spam crouch if they want.

What I'm arguing is: why is that an effective "mechanic" in the first place? Player is technically moving, aim should go to hell. And you could circle back to why is spraying an effective mechanic.

Like the guy in the video illustrates, in CS1.6 the implementation was natural, elegant. In CSGO it's artificial and makes you want to pierce your eyeballs.

I'm not the one who has decided spam crouching is a malpractice: it's valve who's acknowledging it, since they are "fixing" it. And they are doing it in a way that to me is alien to the game. At that point you might as well kick or ban a player. They are temporarily banning people quitting from competitive games after all. I'm not saying they should, on the contrary: I think they should not give players a reason to be dicks, instead of trying to give players a reason not to be dicks.

Edited September 13, 2016 by blackdog

[laminutederire]

3 hours ago, blackdog said:

That's not exactly the concept I wanted to express.

I'm talking about sportsmanship as a player. I don't call creative an idiotic being who's only means to success is to cheat and bypass the normal flow of the game.

i never spawn camped in DoD for eg.

Yes rules are those that are coded in, but afaik there are rules for tournaments that cover sportsmanship and behaviour (no pixel walking  or peeking through NODRAW textures etc).

Also the game features a voting system for annoying players. (Hence recognising the concept of unfair play)

What I said in the first place is that it's stupid to code a system that monitors a buggy/lousy  implementation, instead of fixing  the underlying problem (leave aside the argument of actual current problem with hitboxes), because that eventually opens up to more exploiting.

That means: let people spam crouch if they want.

What I'm arguing is: why is that an effective "mechanic" in the first place? Player is technically moving, aim should go to hell. And you could circle back to why is spraying an effective mechanic.

Like the guy in the video illustrates, in CS1.6 the implementation was natural, elegant. In CSGO it's artificial and makes you want to pierce your eyeballs.

I'm not the one who has decided spam crouching is a malpractice: it's valve who's acknowledging it, since they are "fixing" it. And they are doing it in a way that to me is alien to the game. At that point you might as well kick or ban a player. They are temporarily banning people quitting from competitive games after all. I'm not saying they should, on the contrary: I think they should not give players a reason to be dicks, instead of trying to give players a reason not to be dicks.

A good example of what you're trying to express might be how people jumping all over the place and only doing that are ban from heads hit only death match, since it's damn annoying to get those headshots, and they don't necessarily shoot you back, so they're just exploiting something that is there for a reason, that people could do as well but don't do because that's not how the game is supposed to be played even if the game mechanics allows it?

[Jetsetlemming]

On 9/12/2016 at 8:43 PM, DrywallDreams said:

There is no exploitable problem, though.  The issue with hitboxes/hitcapsules in the current live version of the game is that player's angles don't update properly when a player is stationary, there isn't any bug with crouching.  

I meant the movement stuff referred to before. IIRC, those "spin" hacks are based on exploiting it by making the player essentially impossible to hit.

[grapen]

So in the new update we can solo jump into vent from checkers on cache, among other ridiculous things. Genji confirmed? I'm not surprised anymore after playing this franchise for 17 years.

[Vaya]

gltiches happen- more so in an ancient engine. I don't understand why valve would add a beta strand and then not use it for 1/2 the update though. They could of avoided the normal faux outrage.

[grapen]

1 hour ago, Vaya said:

gltiches happen- more so in an ancient engine. I don't understand why valve would add a beta strand and then not use it for 1/2 the update though. They could of avoided the normal faux outrage.

Glitches happen, and Valve continues to push updates on fridays before hitting the commute home for the weekend. But what do I know, I'm not a dev. 

[Vaya]

25 minutes ago, grapen said:

Glitches happen, and Valve continues to push updates on fridays before hitting the commute home for the weekend. But what do I know, I'm not a dev. 

very true. I hope they aren't sticking to some BS release schedule and not testing at all due to this...

 

Pushing updates on a friday is stupid, we'd never do it here and this company is a mess

Edited September 17, 2016 by Vaya

[Pampers]

was the new movement things in the beta? did anyone reproduce it there?

[DrywallDreams]

7 hours ago, Pampers said:

was the new movement things in the beta? did anyone reproduce it there?

Nope, the current bug was because of a fix for a different crouch jumping bug in the beta that they never tested. :/