Corona Virus

[Bunglo]

China's pretty much there with big tech here in the US following in their footsteps. 9 more years until Denton arrives and saves us all.

[FMPONE]

8 hours ago, ┌HP┘ said:

We're slowly becoming a god dammed cyberpunk irl.

Anyone here ever read Brave New World? People love to say we're at the cusp of becoming an Orwellian society, but tbh from what I'm seeing Huxley was closer. 

(Curious fact, he was Orwell's teacher.)

Brave New World has a strong understanding of technology, the human id, colonialism, and the biological.

For instance, the importance of biotech, which Corona reminded us all of recently, given that it’s pretty clear they cooked it up in a lab just like the characters at the beginning of that book. Dividing society along arbitrary identity lines as a useful political tactic to obfuscate power, is another theme Brave New World explores in a way that 1984 does not. Overall though, I think it’s a bit flighty, drug-obsessed and not as grounded as 1984, which has a total focus on language (yours, mine, ours, theirs) as the most potent weapon wielded by the powerful against the weak (i.e. propaganda) and the importance of surveillance, marketing, and manufacturing consent.

While drugs are prevalent today, I don’t think it’s true that power/capital/governments want their people sedated and drifting through their days in narcotic bliss. If anything, there seems to be a psychotic and oppressive obsession with people being “on” and “engaged” constantly, prisoners to their anger and hatred. Less tantric sex, more raging at your television/phone.

Prescient as Huxley was on a variety of subjects, that’s a decidedly 1984 vibe for me. The image of the angry, self-righteous face screaming at you on your giant television screen, while simultaneously watching you in your home and listening to your every word… that’s 1984 and it’s the world today.

[blackdog]

16 hours ago, ┌HP┘ said:

We're slowly becoming a god dammed cyberpunk irl.

Anyone here ever read Brave New World? People love to say we're at the cusp of becoming an Orwellian society, but tbh from what I'm seeing Huxley was closer. 

(Curious fact, he was Orwell's teacher.)

One of those that’s been in my list to read and still haven’t got round because have too many books piled up.

I’ve been gobbling up Colony, the TV show, that has several elements of what we’ve seen with COVID.

~

The interesting thing with these pillars of narrative is that the oppression is always very “conscious”, as in a handful of people really driving a certain objective, whilst what we see is more of a product of a hive mind, different influences. Is not like China were you can tell for sure a few people are driving a very specific policy.

(btw a few days ago in China they banned people from putting fingers up their noses [on camera/social only?])

Edited July 9, 2021 by blackdog

[RaVaGe]

What do you guys think about the pandora's box France opened ? I think there's no coming back from that point.

[Minos]

The Matrix is glitching harder and harder each day 

@RaVaGe what pandora box? fill me in pls

[Bunglo]

Yep and unfortunately I know of no pill that can get us out of here.

I'm assuming RaVaGe means this: https://interestingengineering.com/france-requires-covid-19-health-pass

[Minos]

3 hours ago, Bunglo said:

Yep and unfortunately I know of no pill that can get us out of here.

I'm assuming RaVaGe means this: https://interestingengineering.com/france-requires-covid-19-health-pass

[Radu]

[RaVaGe]

On 1/6/2021 at 5:13 PM, kleinluka said:

Why should others have to pay the (sometimes ultimate) price for people who choose to ignore the advice of every health agency on the planet? Fuck yes, I would want to be kept separate from people who pose a risk to me and my family.

The two main vaccines currently have an efficacy of 90+ %, there will be others rolling out shortly where this protection is only in the realm of 70%

I think many of these things will largely depend on whether it can be determined that the vaccines prevent transmission, which as of right now I think we still need more data to say for sure.

If the vaccines don't stop transmission, then herd immunity through vaccine becomes far-fetched and at that point it really doesn't make a difference to me if you get vaccinated or not.

However, the unvaccinated portion of the population would still be an unjust burden on the medical system by continuing to fill up ICUs and hospitals. Here in Ontario they are now pausing cancer surgeries because our ICUs are packed full of covid patients. I'm sorry but if you don't vaccinate because you just don't want to but then need to be hospitalized and meanwhile my mom gets her cancer surgery delayed and risks death because of your choice...you see why I would have a problem with this? If you actually had a legit reason not to get vaccinated, like a medical condition, that's a totally different thing and anyone would understand. But if you don't get vaccinated because of some unfounded rumour about vaccine safety, something that is not based on legitimate data or scientific fact, then yes, it should be you who pays the price for that choice and not my mom, or somebody else's mom.

The vaccine has now been given to millions of people across the world and there have been, to my knowledge, reports of less than 10 severe reactions, most of which were treated within an hour and the patient released home. There is no scientific evidence the vaccine poses a risk in the long-term and no reason to think that it would.

A little bit late on that statement, but have you changed your mind about all of this or do you still consider your point of view completely legitimate ?

I would argue that declining patients solely based on their medical conditions/way of life is a pretty dark path to follow. How about our medical system is a clusterfuck and we need to improve it ?

Edited July 27, 2021 by RaVaGe

[RaVaGe]

10 hours ago, Pericolos0 said:

good

Any argument about why it's a good thing ?

[Radu]

"With COVID-19 surging around the United States and vaccination rates stagnating, federal agencies and state governments started announcing vaccine mandates for their workers.

Private companies are doing the same. Google said Wednesday that employees would have to be vaccinated to come to the office, and Facebook and Lyft followed with their own announcements hours later. Some New York City restaurants are requiring that employees get vaccinated and are asking diners to show proof of vaccination."

https://www.theverge.com/22600423/vaccine-mandates-federal-state-google-facebook

 

Earlier today I talked to someone who is "not anti-vax, but not pro covid-19 vaccine either". Their key points were that:

- the vaccine is about control, not health, and cutting rights little by little (arguing that you should have the freedom to decide what to do with your body, not be forced to get the vaccine in order to keep your job)

- it's not a regular vaccine ("Vaccines contain weakened or inactive parts of a particular organism (antigen) that triggers an immune response within the body. Newer vaccines contain the blueprint for producing antigens rather than the antigen itself". source: https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/how-do-vaccines-work)

- long term effects are not known (with several doctors telling them to wait to see what happens after this experiment)

 

Pretty sensible points? This whole subject has been super polarising overall. If the vaccine becomes mandatory in order to resume work, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Radu

[FMPONE]

2 hours ago, Radu said:

"With COVID-19 surging around the United States and vaccination rates stagnating, federal agencies and state governments started announcing vaccine mandates for their workers.

Private companies are doing the same. Google said Wednesday that employees would have to be vaccinated to come to the office, and Facebook and Lyft followed with their own announcements hours later. Some New York City restaurants are requiring that employees get vaccinated and are asking diners to show proof of vaccination."

https://www.theverge.com/22600423/vaccine-mandates-federal-state-google-facebook

 

Earlier today I talked to someone who is "not anti-vax, but not pro covid-19 vaccine either". Their key points were that:

- the vaccine is about control, not health, and cutting rights little by little (arguing that you should have the freedom to decide what to do with your body, not be forced to get the vaccine in order to keep your job)

- it's not a regular vaccine ("Vaccines contain weakened or inactive parts of a particular organism (antigen) that triggers an immune response within the body. Newer vaccines contain the blueprint for producing antigens rather than the antigen itself". source: https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/how-do-vaccines-work)

- long term effects are not known (with several doctors telling them to wait to see what happens after this experiment)

 

Pretty sensible points? This whole subject has been super polarising overall. If the vaccine becomes mandatory in order to resume work, it will be interesting to see what happens.

In the United States, the government owns your body. Not saying that morally, but practically, they can enact a draft to take physical possession of you. They can subpoena you, put a warrant out for you, arrest you. So they already have control.

The new vaccine argument elides the fact that failure to take the vaccine at all increases your chance of contracting a deadly virus. So it’s like driving without a seatbelt, or smoking at a gasoline pump. Eventually that shit will catch up to you, and the only hope you’ve got is a vaccine.

In my opinion it is clear that this thing was created in a lab. Your best chance of fighting it is something created in a lab. That is just where humanity is today. Ever since the Manhattan Project we have been fucking around with science in a way that will doom us as a species, this vaccine is a way to avoid personal doom in the meantime.

I can understand why this is not an optimistic or marketable truth, but sooner or later the government is going to stop fucking around and start mandating these vaccines, probably at the point where young people start to be at severe risk.

[kleinluka]

On 7/27/2021 at 6:26 AM, RaVaGe said:

A little bit late on that statement, but have you changed your mind about all of this or do you still consider your point of view completely legitimate ?

I would argue that declining patients solely based on their medical conditions/way of life is a pretty dark path to follow. How about our medical system is a clusterfuck and we need to improve it ?

Nope,

high vaccination turnout has reduced ICU and hospitalizations and deaths across the board.

[RaVaGe]

5 hours ago, kleinluka said:

Nope,

high vaccination turnout has reduced ICU and hospitalizations and deaths across the board.

Ok, if I might follow your thought process, does your mom (I really hope she's well now) is a smoker or drink from time to time ? Even if not, would you let a close one die because he was a smoker, despite it's written on every damn cigarette pack that it is harmfull ? Would you let someone die from a heavy car crash because he's 100% in fault ? You could argue it's a totally different case, I believe it's not, and once you start to cherry pick patients because they have made retarded decisions in the past, it's getting pretty fucked up imo, and for what ? Just because our medical system is from another era, you see many hospitals reducing their amount of beds, reducing their staff, reducing the amount of numerus clausus accepted and then recruiting from foreign countries.

There are many arguments for vaccination or not, but using the 'if you don't get vacc, you can't get treatment' is such a retarded one. I think every medical system that kinda work is  based on a collective system, why someone should pay for your cancer treatment when he's forced out of the system ? You see, this thing can go pretty far in both directions and, pandemic or not, I believe we should not go that way.

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by RaVaGe

[Minos]

You want to put experimental technologies in your body, then by all means, go for it, more power to you, it's your right to do so. If you don't want to do it, because of whatever personal reasons you have, that's fine too. Let's just respect each others' choice and stop the gaslighting/virtue signaling