Jump to content

Corona Virus


dmu
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 1/6/2021 at 5:13 PM, kleinluka said:

Why should others have to pay the (sometimes ultimate) price for people who choose to ignore the advice of every health agency on the planet? Fuck yes, I would want to be kept separate from people who pose a risk to me and my family.

The two main vaccines currently have an efficacy of 90+ %, there will be others rolling out shortly where this protection is only in the realm of 70%

I think many of these things will largely depend on whether it can be determined that the vaccines prevent transmission, which as of right now I think we still need more data to say for sure.

If the vaccines don't stop transmission, then herd immunity through vaccine becomes far-fetched and at that point it really doesn't make a difference to me if you get vaccinated or not.

However, the unvaccinated portion of the population would still be an unjust burden on the medical system by continuing to fill up ICUs and hospitals. Here in Ontario they are now pausing cancer surgeries because our ICUs are packed full of covid patients. I'm sorry but if you don't vaccinate because you just don't want to but then need to be hospitalized and meanwhile my mom gets her cancer surgery delayed and risks death because of your choice...you see why I would have a problem with this? If you actually had a legit reason not to get vaccinated, like a medical condition, that's a totally different thing and anyone would understand. But if you don't get vaccinated because of some unfounded rumour about vaccine safety, something that is not based on legitimate data or scientific fact, then yes, it should be you who pays the price for that choice and not my mom, or somebody else's mom.

The vaccine has now been given to millions of people across the world and there have been, to my knowledge, reports of less than 10 severe reactions, most of which were treated within an hour and the patient released home. There is no scientific evidence the vaccine poses a risk in the long-term and no reason to think that it would.

A little bit late on that statement, but have you changed your mind about all of this or do you still consider your point of view completely legitimate ?

I would argue that declining patients solely based on their medical conditions/way of life is a pretty dark path to follow. How about our medical system is a clusterfuck and we need to improve it ?

Edited by RaVaGe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"With COVID-19 surging around the United States and vaccination rates stagnating, federal agencies and state governments started announcing vaccine mandates for their workers.

Private companies are doing the same. Google said Wednesday that employees would have to be vaccinated to come to the office, and Facebook and Lyft followed with their own announcements hours later. Some New York City restaurants are requiring that employees get vaccinated and are asking diners to show proof of vaccination."

https://www.theverge.com/22600423/vaccine-mandates-federal-state-google-facebook

 

Earlier today I talked to someone who is "not anti-vax, but not pro covid-19 vaccine either". Their key points were that:

- the vaccine is about control, not health, and cutting rights little by little (arguing that you should have the freedom to decide what to do with your body, not be forced to get the vaccine in order to keep your job)

- it's not a regular vaccine ("Vaccines contain weakened or inactive parts of a particular organism (antigen) that triggers an immune response within the body. Newer vaccines contain the blueprint for producing antigens rather than the antigen itself". source: https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/how-do-vaccines-work)

- long term effects are not known (with several doctors telling them to wait to see what happens after this experiment)

 

Pretty sensible points? This whole subject has been super polarising overall. If the vaccine becomes mandatory in order to resume work, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Edited by Radu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Radu said:

"With COVID-19 surging around the United States and vaccination rates stagnating, federal agencies and state governments started announcing vaccine mandates for their workers.

Private companies are doing the same. Google said Wednesday that employees would have to be vaccinated to come to the office, and Facebook and Lyft followed with their own announcements hours later. Some New York City restaurants are requiring that employees get vaccinated and are asking diners to show proof of vaccination."

https://www.theverge.com/22600423/vaccine-mandates-federal-state-google-facebook

 

Earlier today I talked to someone who is "not anti-vax, but not pro covid-19 vaccine either". Their key points were that:

- the vaccine is about control, not health, and cutting rights little by little (arguing that you should have the freedom to decide what to do with your body, not be forced to get the vaccine in order to keep your job)

- it's not a regular vaccine ("Vaccines contain weakened or inactive parts of a particular organism (antigen) that triggers an immune response within the body. Newer vaccines contain the blueprint for producing antigens rather than the antigen itself". source: https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/how-do-vaccines-work)

- long term effects are not known (with several doctors telling them to wait to see what happens after this experiment)

 

Pretty sensible points? This whole subject has been super polarising overall. If the vaccine becomes mandatory in order to resume work, it will be interesting to see what happens.

In the United States, the government owns your body. Not saying that morally, but practically, they can enact a draft to take physical possession of you. They can subpoena you, put a warrant out for you, arrest you. So they already have control.

The new vaccine argument elides the fact that failure to take the vaccine at all increases your chance of contracting a deadly virus. So it’s like driving without a seatbelt, or smoking at a gasoline pump. Eventually that shit will catch up to you, and the only hope you’ve got is a vaccine.

In my opinion it is clear that this thing was created in a lab. Your best chance of fighting it is something created in a lab. That is just where humanity is today. Ever since the Manhattan Project we have been fucking around with science in a way that will doom us as a species, this vaccine is a way to avoid personal doom in the meantime.

I can understand why this is not an optimistic or marketable truth, but sooner or later the government is going to stop fucking around and start mandating these vaccines, probably at the point where young people start to be at severe risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/27/2021 at 6:26 AM, RaVaGe said:

A little bit late on that statement, but have you changed your mind about all of this or do you still consider your point of view completely legitimate ?

I would argue that declining patients solely based on their medical conditions/way of life is a pretty dark path to follow. How about our medical system is a clusterfuck and we need to improve it ?

Nope,

high vaccination turnout has reduced ICU and hospitalizations and deaths across the board.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, kleinluka said:

Nope,

high vaccination turnout has reduced ICU and hospitalizations and deaths across the board.

Ok, if I might follow your thought process, does your mom (I really hope she's well now) is a smoker or drink from time to time ? Even if not, would you let a close one die because he was a smoker, despite it's written on every damn cigarette pack that it is harmfull ? Would you let someone die from a heavy car crash because he's 100% in fault ? You could argue it's a totally different case, I believe it's not, and once you start to cherry pick patients because they have made retarded decisions in the past, it's getting pretty fucked up imo, and for what ? Just because our medical system is from another era, you see many hospitals reducing their amount of beds, reducing their staff, reducing the amount of numerus clausus accepted and then recruiting from foreign countries.

There are many arguments for vaccination or not, but using the 'if you don't get vacc, you can't get treatment' is such a retarded one. I think every medical system that kinda work is  based on a collective system, why someone should pay for your cancer treatment when he's forced out of the system ? You see, this thing can go pretty far in both directions and, pandemic or not, I believe we should not go that way.

 

Edited by RaVaGe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You want to put experimental technologies in your body, then by all means, go for it, more power to you, it's your right to do so. If you don't want to do it, because of whatever personal reasons you have, that's fine too. Let's just respect each others' choice and stop the gaslighting/virtue signaling :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

Ok, if I might follow your thought process, does your mom (I really hope she's well now) is a smoker or drink from time to time ? Even if not, would you let a close one die because he was a smoker, despite it's written on every damn cigarette pack that it is harmfull ? Would you let someone die from a heavy car crash because he's 100% in fault ? You could argue it's a totally different case, I believe it's not, and once you start to cherry pick patients because they have made retarded decisions in the past, it's getting pretty fucked up imo, and for what ?

There are many arguments for vaccination or not, but using the 'if you don't get vacc, you can't get treatment' is such a retarded one.

People 100% do get bumped from organ transplant lists if they show no intent to stop the behaviour that caused them to need it, though

I'm not saying that's a good analogue for the current vaccine discussion, but I will say that was an exceptionally poor choice of comparison

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/30/2021 at 10:51 PM, Minos said:

You want to put experimental technologies in your body, then by all means, go for it, more power to you, it's your right to do so. If you don't want to do it, because of whatever personal reasons you have, that's fine too. Let's just respect each others' choice and stop the gaslighting/virtue signaling :) 

you have the right not to get vaccinated but that choice doesn't deserve any respect lmao

On 7/28/2021 at 3:09 AM, RaVaGe said:

Any argument about why it's a good thing ?

its not the big pandora's box you think it is. We live in a society. You don't want to get vaccinated and do the barest minimum effort to help protect the people around you? Maybe you don't get to go to the restaurant then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Pericolos0 said:

you have the right not to get vaccinated but that choice doesn't deserve any respect lmao

its not the big pandora's box you think it is. We live in a society. You don't want to get vaccinated and do the barest minimum effort to help protect the people around you? Maybe you don't get to go to the restaurant then.

The barest minimum effort ? What effort lol, don't you think it's just a totally different subject here ? I believe it's a total distrust and a complete rejection of the actual system by a big part of the population, it's not a question wether or not you want to protect to people around you, again i'm not against vaccines, but I just don't get that obsession to sting all the fucking planet, free to you to vaccinate yourself and your childrens with that (albeit i'm pretty sure you won't, nor you don't have any).

Edited by RaVaGe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/31/2021 at 9:45 AM, ThunderKeil said:

I'm not saying that's a good analogue for the current vaccine discussion, but I will say that was an exceptionally poor choice of comparison

As poor as the promoters of a vaccine passport/green pass/whathaveyou ridiculing the opposers by arguing “doesn’t a traffic light take away your freedom?”

I don’t know if abroad there is this tone of conversation, but that’s in Italy.

11 hours ago, Pericolos0 said:

its not the big pandora's box you think it is.

…no? In the last few days the White House has in succession announced they want to blacklist content themselves on social, as well as coordinating with phone carriers to look into private text messages for misinformation.

That sounds like United States of China to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

The barest minimum effort ? What effort lol, don't you think it's just a totally different subject here ? I believe it's a total distrust and a complete rejection of the actual system by a big part of the population, it's not a question wether or not you want to protect to people around you, again i'm not against vaccines, but I just don't get that obsession to sting all the fucking planet, free to you to vaccinate yourself and your childrens with that (albeit i'm pretty sure you won't, nor you don't have any).

I might be wrong, i'm not an expert, but that's how i understand things :

The way a vaccine works is by using it on a portion of the population in order to reduce the propagation rate.

We don't know everything but it's been a while already, and we know that this portion ideally should be as large as possible for it to be as effective as possible, the same way other vaccines required it before and made deseases practically disappear.
We know that it has an effect on the individuals aswell, to nullify the risk for the covid to put you in a serious situation where you would have to be taken in charge by ICUs. So vaccinating one person means this person won't have to be taken in charge by them, and won't risk to overload the ICUs (which is crucial for public health).

 

We don't know for sure that being vaccinated prevents the spread, because you technically could still carry the virus (maybe). But even if it just reduces this duration, because you don't experience its effects, and therefore limits the amount of people you potentially expose to the virus, it's already a big win against the spread.

We also now have quite a a lot of people who got vaccinated, and the secondary effects and risks are completely negligeable, especially putting against the risk of getting hurt from the covid itself (which is much larger).

 

So it's not just about individuals clearly, getting vaccinated (if you can) is, to me, a public liability.
We all have witnessed what covid does and it baffles me that despite all the shit we all went through, and despite the fact that we have a solution for it that is greatly effective (up to now) and with a very low risk, we don't all embrace it.

 

 

I feel like, because a vaccine is done through a sting and not just a medicine to swallow, it feels more intrusive and dangerous.
That doesn't make much sense (you could kill someone by making him eat a medicine, they're both as intrusive) but that's a feeling, guts speaking. We have to think and realize this kind of bias.

 

Also simple question : aren't there already mandatory vaccines where you guys live ? It's been like that for a long time, preventing plenty of deaths.
If so, how is covid's vaccine "a total distrust and a complete rejection of the actual system" ? The system already uses vaccine no ?

My bad I read it wrong.
A distruct and rejection of the system from a part of population. Yes i can understand that.
Unfortunately all of this isn't politics but i guess it's hard to distinguish it when it's the politics that make such rules. Sorry for reading this wrong

 

Edited by leplubodeslapin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share


  • MapCore on Discord

  • Our picks

    • Mapcore X Prodeus Winners Announced!
      The winners of Mapcore X2 Prodeus 
      1st place: Paws [ Retail Therapy ]
      P-link: m-MC0iuUs2j6

      - $1,500.00 USD 
      - One year of Humble Choice 
      - Excalibur Shotgun and Gauntlets (skins)
      - Biker Gloves (skin) 
      - Special winners role on the Prodeus Discord
       



       

      2nd Place: Grays [ Firebase Kodai ]
      P-link: m-5J9cCzaepH

      - $1000.00 USD 
      - 1 month to Humble Choice 
      - Excalibur Gauntlets + Biker Gloves (skins) 
      - Special winners role on the Prodeus Discord
       


       

      3rd Place: Vladd [ Maximum Menace ]
      P-link: m-9yZfaAliyx

      - $500.00 USD 
      - 1 month to Humble Choice 
      - Biker Gloves (skin)
      - Special winners role on the Prodeus Discord
       


       

      All of the winners will also be showcased on our Youtube channel, and because we had so many amazing entries, we’ll be showcasing parts of our Staff Picks too. 

      We want to thank the wonderful folks over at Mapcore for hosting this sick competition, and a big ol shoutout to our sponsor Humble Games (who publish Prodeus), for making a large contribution to our prize pool this time around. 

      Looking forward to the next competition already! Maybe will do a coop one with teams allowed? WHO KNOW!? Can't wait, see you then!
       
      • 2 replies
×
×
  • Create New...