e-freak Posted January 30, 2008 Report Posted January 30, 2008 Steamworks is free. As far as I understand the termes you only share win with valve if you sell over steam?
e-freak Posted January 30, 2008 Report Posted January 30, 2008 Frie: Sharing rate or licensing costs are negotiated on single basis I think. Depending on how much traffic and what fund is involved / kind of company is using it. I doubt that Indie Devs pay as much as 2K Games.
Cybbe Posted January 31, 2008 Report Posted January 31, 2008 (Okay, I've been wanting to post this for a while, but the forums have been shaky. Some of it might be slightly outdated, I've tried to renew it a bit. Also, this is not pointed directly at anyone in particular.) You can generally tell before you buy the shit games if they're indeed that shit they're not worth spending money on. Whether it be an obviously milked out franchise, or just seems to have an incoherent story, bad controls in a demo, odd camera angles, bad graphics on screenshots, or whatever you'd reject a game by, by playing the full version pirated. All these things are usually really easy to tell if you take the time to investigate things a bit before just deciding to get hands-on with it. Furthermore, though, games in Denmark are shit expensive. They are. But not in comparison to all the other shit in Denmark that's expensive. And I'd be willing to bet, that if you compared the same way everywhere else, the result would probably be the same - even moreso with the games that provide you with unlimited (as in - no end level) multiplayer fun. And even with these prices, each day after school while in high school, I found myself lurking around the local gamestore to see if a new title had come out, or to see if the prices had lowered on another title I'd had my eye on for a while, but maybe couldn't afford. And you do a major service to the developers, the game stores and the PC as a platform to actually go out and buy those games that you've been wondering about for so long. And if you haven't, well, chances are they're not worth wondering about at all, and instead of pirating, just drop it. And even with these prices, I never found myself doubting to buy a PC game I wanted, if I had the cash in one hand and the game in another. Hell, even if I didn't have the cash. Just a while ago, I finally bought Mass Effect, which I've been drooling about even before the release but never got to pick up - despite the fact that I knew it'd mean I had to adjust my food budgets accordingly. And that's also despite the fact that console games are even more shit expensive than PC games - sometimes even double the cost, if you get the PC game at a good price (As I did with BF2142, which I got about $20, despite it being recently released). And with that in mind, is it fair that people manage to buy their console games, but skip over the PC games that are, in fact, a lot cheaper? Buying a good game is basically a major kudos to the developer, and it tells them it's actually worth continuing to develop the games like they do, make a sequel or a series or something else. I'm by no means a saint. But I'm sick of all the people trying to justify what they do. Because the only reason they do try to justify it, is to try and cleanse themselves of the uneasiness that comes with thinking about the fact that they're actually stealing the results of someone else's hard work. Because they know it's wrong. And that thing they're feeling is guilt. And sure, try justifying it. Sure, the staff gets paid no matter what. But the sales might impact a well deserved bonus. Or might mean that the same staff will not be creating an even more successful sequel to a successful game. Or in perhaps the worst case scenario cause a studio to have to shut down because they invested more in the game than they could get back, maybe because they were actually betting on making the entire series - leaving those very people without a job. And sure, you buy what you like. But what about everything you didn't like, but managed to play through anyway and then bashed it for being shit? At least have the decency to buy it as a Best Buy title or something if you really crave it so much but are too cheap to pay for it. Because basically, you're cheating your way to something that wasn't yours in the first place. I find it hard to believe those $10 over steam or for a price-dropped title will set you back that much. I'm a student, so I can't afford buying games all the time, and that's even with getting monetary support from the government. If I did so, I'd probably afford buying two games a month, but sadly, I have a bunch of other things I'd like to buy as well, and sometimes, you might just have to realize you can't own everything and prioritize. And when you do buy that game, make sure you know what you're getting, and get the title you want the most of them all. Chances are the rest will at some point drop, so you can get both for the price of one the next time you can afford it. I know it's by no means fair to only get the bargain titles, anyway though, considering that at that point, the fate might have been somewhat decided anyway. But I'd still say it's way better than stealing your way to it. At least you're paying some sort of respect, as well as supporting your local gamestore (or steam). And even if you can't, it's not like all the titles released are all good. I'm sure there'll be plenty of time for you to catch up. And by the time you get down that list, maybe the stuff you do skip wasn't worth buying for you anyway, since you already got what you wanted the most. And then there's the sweet joy of taking your hard earned money and exchanging them for something really, really awesome. So sweet that you can't wait until you get home and get a chance to pop in that disc. Maybe you even take a look through the manual first, if you're that kind of guy. And when you finally get started, chances are you'll get an awesome feeling of money well spent. If you still feel like pirating.. Well, go ahead, be that guy. But at least take responsibility for it, and stop trying to deny what you're doing is wrong. In fact, stop talking about it all together. It's not something to be proud of. It's very much comparable to having to scamper around at a local market sneaking loafs of bread into your jacket pockets and wandering off, thinking your leaving unnoticed. Not realizing everyone is looking down at you in pity and shame. And noone would be proud of that. Noone.
m8nkey Posted January 31, 2008 Report Posted January 31, 2008 Because the only reason they do try to justify it, is to try and cleanse themselves of the uneasiness that comes with thinking about the fact that they're actually stealing the results of someone else's hard work. Because they know it's wrong. And that thing they're feeling is guilt. The average Joe thinks downloading games or "sharing" games with friends is completely acceptable. There is no moral dilemmer or consideration for the game developer, only the money saved. It's very much comparable to having to scamper around at a local market sneaking loafs of bread into your jacket pockets and wandering off, thinking your leaving unnoticed. Not realizing everyone is looking down at you in pity and shame. And noone would be proud of that. Noone. Except that food is a necessity, expensive entertainment isn't. I wouldn't look down upon someone who had to steal to survive and it's in no way comparable to video game piracy (Reminds me of a funny Lars Ulrich sandwich/filesharing analogy). That's the sort of logic that has resulted in many problems with electronic copyright and the slow adoption of electronic distribution (for music, video, and games). As mentioned by numerous people throughout this thread already, taking the moral high ground and telling people they are evil for pirating is futile. There are many more productive ways to reduce piracy and increase revenue already discussed in this thread. I buy my games because I can, that doesn't make me better in any way than my friends who don't.
Taylor Posted January 31, 2008 Report Posted January 31, 2008 I'd rather not put myself on the same level as a thief to be honest. Also, 90% of US gamers use "DS piracy chip"... well apparently they do anyway, I personally have a hard time believing 10% of US gamers have even heard of it. Claims software sales are lower than any other console ELSPA has claimed that 90 per cent of all DS users in North America are playing pirated games via the notorious R4 cartridge. John Hillier, manager of ELSPA's Intellectual Property Crime Unit, said that the R4 – a cartridge that plays hacked games downloaded onto a memory card – is harming sales for Nintendo and making it the least-profitable console on the market. "The implications are massive. In America it's thought 90 per cent of Nintendo DS users are playing pirated games because of R4s," said Hillier, talking to The Sunday Post. "Takings from Nintendo DS games in the US are lower than any other console and no doubt it will have a similar impact here," he said, discussing the uptake of the R4 in the UK. The R4 is available to buy over the internet and unlike previous chips and modifications for other consoles, requires no clumsy hardware modifications. The biggest threat that the R4 makes to the piracy problem, according to Hillier, is that it allows users the freedom to download hacked games from their PC and import them straight to the handheld. "That's the real danger – you may think you're getting a good deal but using the R4 is risking the future of the games industry." "Crucially, the R4 has shifted balance of power in the piracy industry to the consumer – and that is hugely worrying," he said. GamesIndustry.biz has contacted ELSPA for clarification of the quoted statistics.
Izuno Posted February 1, 2008 Report Posted February 1, 2008 I'm not a big DS gamer but I have never heard of that thing. Maybe all those kids with DS's are little l33thxrs.
Cybbe Posted February 1, 2008 Report Posted February 1, 2008 Well, I'm a huge fan of electronic distribution, save the fact that I really like boxes. But digital distribution is probably the only thing that can actually save the pc as a platform, and they need to get their asses spinning with it Availability is the key. Anyway, glad somoene took the time to actually read it. It was quite a bunch. And while I do see your point, m8nkey, it doesn't really make it any less wrong. Just because it's available doesn't make it free for grabs. Also, I'd like to edit my "your" to a you're. I really don't know how that one sneaked in there D: I buy my games because I can, that doesn't make me better in any way than my friends who don't. I'm not talking about who's better than who here. I'm saying that you should, ideally, leave stuff the fuck alone if you can't afford it. It's okay to go around trying out stuff you can't afford, pretending you can, but that's what trials are for, and a lot of people make do just fine with those. It's like.. "I kinda need to be entertained RIGHT NOW and it needs to be EXACTLY THAT, but I can't afford it. So I'll just help myself to it in some other means." Just because you don't have the money for it doesn't mean the entire society is going to go all "awww" on your lack of priviliged goods and hand it over for free as a sort of empathy reward. It's not about taking the moral higher ground, it's about the way things are currently, and it's fact. Buying stuff like this is a luxury, and the way society's built, luxury is for people that can afford it, and, well, noone else. I'm not saying that's necessarily how it's supposed to be, but it's how it is.
Ginger Lord Posted February 4, 2008 Report Posted February 4, 2008 So I went and bought some PC games yesterday at a price I liked. A lot. Admittedly they were from GameStation second hand so all the money goes in their pockets not the dev/publishers pockets. Company of Heroes Dawn of War Medal of Honour: Allied Assault Battlefield 1942 Command and Conquer Generals. £7.99. For all of them, total.
ReNo Posted February 29, 2008 Report Posted February 29, 2008 Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but this seemed relevant to it and might prove interesting for some people. Basically, Iron Lore Entertainment, who made Titan Quest, just shut down. One of the devs - fairly senior, I gather - wrote a forum thread about their frustrations with the games industry, and PC game development in particular. 70-90% piracy rates? Holy jesus... http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk ... hp?t=42663
dux Posted February 29, 2008 Report Posted February 29, 2008 And while I'm at it, I don't want to spare the reviewers either. We had one reviewer - I won't name names, you can find it if you look hard enough - who missed the fact that you can teleport from wherever you are in TQ back to any of the major towns you've visited. So, this guy was hand-carting all of his stuff back to town every time his inventory was full. Through the entire game. Now, not only was this in the manual, and in the roll-over tooltips for the UI, but it was also in the tutorial, the very first time you walk past one of these giant pads that lights up like a beacon to the heavens. Nonetheless, he missed it, and he commented in his review how tedious this was and how much he missed being able to portal back to town. When we - and lots of our fans - pointed out that this was the reviewer's fault, not the game's, they amended the review. But, they didn't change the score. Do you honestly think that not having to run back to town all the time to sell your stuff wouldn't have made the game a better experience? We had another reviewer who got crashes on both the original and the expansion pack. We worked with him to figure out what was going on; the first time, it was an obscure peripheral that was causing the crash, a classic hardware conflict for a type of hardware that very, very few people have. The second time, it was in a pre-release build that we had told him was pre-release. After identifying the problem, getting him around it, and verifying that the bug was a known issue and had been fixed in the interim, he still ran the story with a prominent mention of this bug. With friends like that... Icing on the cake.
zaphod Posted February 29, 2008 Report Posted February 29, 2008 maybe they should have used an anti-piracy system that actually works instead of some hacked and easily defeatable system that makes it appear as if the game is broken. If 85% of people pirate your game, it's probably pretty fucking easy to do it. They might as well sprinkle copies on the ground and yell at people for picking them up. Why go through the trouble of making an awesome game if you release it KNOWING that it will be extremely easy to crack / pirate? Or did they really think whatever system they had in place would work? I have been through studios closing in the past - it sucks, and I feel for them. But it pisses me off if people see this coming and are knowledgeable about these piracy rates and don't adapt or change the way they release games to compensate. These people deserve to be paid for every copy played, and there are systems out there that can accomplish that, you just can't rely on copy protection techniques from the last decade. They didn't work then, and they don't work now. A lot of developers might say "well we shouldn't have to do that!!!" well I'm sorry - but it's a fact of the market, and you can't "reason" with a market force, you can only react to it. The people that realize this and react accordingly will be the ones that drink the milkshake of the PC market as the others dry up.
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