The cost of games

[FMPONE]

19 hours ago, 2d-chris said:

hehe, if we got paid what other people in the tech industry get on average, this chart would be off the scale. some wise words here for sure, doing things procedural no matter your area is certainly wise, if nothing else it's a blast to figure out, but everything has it's limits,  just need to figure out the pros and cons. Whats interesting recently, is the biggest games are pretty limited in scope, which is actually smart in it's own right, especially as costs keep going up. I guess, what blows my mind, is how much gamers expect, for say, $30, in a bar, that's a couple of beers and a pizza, maybe 2-3 hours of entertainment, yet games are somewhat expected to last forever, for such value? I'm certainly not advocating we make games $200, but it always fascinates me. Maybe the real issue here is eating/drinking out is too damn expensive!  

This is such a smart point.

But in fact your point is true, the cost of food has risen astronomically over the last 100 years. Probably a lot of factors in that, but chief among them we kind of need it to live. I'm not gonna die if I don't get to play Cuphead for a week.

[dux]

We (Unknown Worlds) started out with a tiny budget and ended up needing investment from Perfect World. We put everything we had into Subnautica and almost went bust several times. We started out with procedural generation for the world at the beginning but quickly realised this wouldn't work for the world we wanted to create (a finely crafted single player experience and random gen just didn't give us that. It was cool but nothing looked memorable or unique) So it took us 4.5 years but we accomplished what we wanted in the end. Then we get a negative review on steam from some user on 500 hours who whines there's no multiplayer and that "the devs are just lazy". We couldn't afford to do it basically (and a limited amount of programmers, struggled to find more with the abilities we required for quite a while) but no one seems to understand that. Every developer has millions to throw at games and employees apparently.

[blackdog]

18 hours ago, FMPONE said:

This is such a smart point.

But in fact your point is true, the cost of food has risen astronomically over the last 100 years. Probably a lot of factors in that, but chief among them we kind of need it to live. I'm not gonna die if I don't get to play Cuphead for a week.

 

On 21/01/2018 at 8:16 PM, 2d-chris said:

what blows my mind, is how much gamers expect, for say, $30, in a bar, that's a couple of beers and a pizza, maybe 2-3 hours of entertainment, yet games are somewhat expected to last forever, for such value? I'm certainly not advocating we make games $200, but it always fascinates me. Maybe the real issue here is eating/drinking out is too damn expensive!  

Well top games, between season pass and possibly other DLC after that are not really that far from that mark. I got the feeling that 2014-2016 publishers were pushing hard on collector's and special editions, so they could end up raking $200 on many copies, at some point in the recent past felt there were more special editions than standard copies.

I also think expectations on cost are on the average, teenager gamer. I think adults are much happier to spend $30 for 6h of a well crafted experience they can fully enjoy, rather than spend say 15-20 and be still nowhere near the end.

The food argument is a bit weird, certainly the cost has gone up and up but we are used to it? I don't compare games to my everyday food, of course I need to eat first, choice between two might come into play for special experiences. A lot lies on perspective, as a teenager I much rather save having a pizza with friends and buy a game, now it's the reverse. We have spent £60-70 a pop on themed dinners (look up gingerline London to understand what I mean) and found it quite hard to commit (but in the end considered "good value")... yet we buy so regularly £7-10 wine/prosecco that if we weren't, we would have a huge pot for stuff like those dinners.

The salary topic is quite interesting and very delicate as well... most people feel underpaid. High skills have to be rewarded, yet if we go back to the food and games comparison, someone skilled in making food is sooooo much less paid than "anyone" in the software industry, at the end of the day which skill would be more important, really?

Edited January 23, 2018 by blackdog

[Radu]

https://kotaku.com/warframe-fans-ask-developers-to-avoid-crunch-1830327178

Warframe fans have been eagerly awaiting the Fortuna expansion, which released today, since it was announced in July. Yesterday, on the eve of its release, a Reddit user Spacesheepie posted a Warframe-themed anti-crunch graphic resembling a workplace safety poster as a “gentle reminder” that the devs should prioritize their health over cranking out new content, even during the mad dash to get Fortuna out.

 

 https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/7/18073314/red-dead-redemption-2-sales-17-million-units 

Red Dead Redemption 2, said Take-Two, has “exceeded our sales expectations to date.” Last week, the company announced sell-through of $725 million during the game’s first three days of release.

 

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-11-09-german-government-to-establish-50-million-game-fund-in-2019

The German government has allocated €50 million of its 2019 budget for the creation of a games fund, the first time the country's industry has been promoted on the federal level.

[-HP-]

*slow clap*

things are looking up guys.

[Radu]

"Watch Dogs Legion, Ubisoft's dystopian romp through the surveillance state city of London in the near future, has been delayed. It was slated to come out on March 6, 2020, but the company announced today that it will instead be released sometime during the company's 2020-21 fiscal year, which begins on April 1, 2020. Rainbow Six Quarantine and Gods and Monsters were also delayed into the next fiscal year.

The delay announcements were accompanied by a significant reduction in financial targets for this fiscal year, from a previous target of €2.185 billion ($2.42 billion) in net bookings to €1.450 ($1.61 billion). The downturn was attributed to the loss of expected revenues from Legion, Quarantine, and Gods and Monsters in this fiscal year, as well as "a sharp downward revision in the revenues expected from Ghost Recon Breakpoint and, to a lesser extent, The Division 2."

https://www.pcgamer.com/ubisoft-delays-watch-dogs-legion-rainbow-six-quarantine-and-gods-and-monsters

[Minos]

 

8 hours ago, Radu said:

"Watch Dogs Legion, Ubisoft's dystopian romp through the surveillance state city of London in the near future, has been delayed. It was slated to come out on March 6, 2020, but the company announced today that it will instead be released sometime during the company's 2020-21 fiscal year, which begins on April 1, 2020. Rainbow Six Quarantine and Gods and Monsters were also delayed into the next fiscal year.

The delay announcements were accompanied by a significant reduction in financial targets for this fiscal year, from a previous target of €2.185 billion ($2.42 billion) in net bookings to €1.450 ($1.61 billion). The downturn was attributed to the loss of expected revenues from Legion, Quarantine, and Gods and Monsters in this fiscal year, as well as "a sharp downward revision in the revenues expected from Ghost Recon Breakpoint and, to a lesser extent, The Division 2."

https://www.pcgamer.com/ubisoft-delays-watch-dogs-legion-rainbow-six-quarantine-and-gods-and-monsters

Good call to delay those games!

[Radu]

"Riot Games to pay $10 million in gender discrimination settlement. The settlement of a class-action lawsuit over allegations of discrimination at League of Legends developer Riot Games will see the studio paying out $10 million to women that worked at the studio in the past five or so years."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/355008/Riot_Games_to_pay_10_million_in_gender_discrimination_settlement.php

[Interfearance]

Corporate profits are looking up lol. Red dead was...

[blackdog]

43 minutes ago, Radu said:

"Riot Games to pay $10 million in gender discrimination settlement. The settlement of a class-action lawsuit over allegations of discrimination at League of Legends developer Riot Games will see the studio paying out $10 million to women that worked at the studio in the past five or so years."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/355008/Riot_Games_to_pay_10_million_in_gender_discrimination_settlement.php

How is it still an “allegation” once you settle (and seemingly admitting to the accusations)?

Maybe @FMPONE the lawyer can enlighten me.

I mean, afaik/what Suits teaches me is that you could settle and not admit to fault but is pretty shit for victims to accept without a real win.

Also at the same time these people won “Esports studio of the year” because their tournaments are well organised, basically spoil the critics and you’ll be on the bright side, as basically admitted by Thorin in his latest video in the Esport Awards.

[Radu]

It's all in the phrasing. They didn't admit to it, they just said they're happy to come to an agreement and improve the studio. I think it was a good decision to settle (on a sum) and impose some conditions on the company to fulfill. If they follow through with those, remains to be seen. 

49 minutes ago, blackdog said:

I mean, afaik/what Suits teaches me is that you could settle and not admit to fault but is pretty shit for victims to accept without a real win.

Similar to the Blizzard apology. Their president apologized, but never mentioned exactly for what he was apologizing - just that Blizzard didn't live up to their high standards. There was no mention of HK or the Hearthstone competitive player whatsoever. 

[blackdog]

1 hour ago, Radu said:

It's all in the phrasing. They didn't admit to it, they just said they're happy to come to an agreement and improve the studio. I think it was a good decision to settle (on a sum) and impose some conditions on the company to fulfill. If they follow through with those, remains to be seen. 

Similar to the Blizzard apology. Their president apologized, but never mentioned exactly for what he was apologizing - just that Blizzard didn't live up to their high standards. There was no mention of HK or the Hearthstone competitive player whatsoever. 

Yeah with the slight different that one is a court case, the other is just PR. Also to be fair to Blizzard, they had the ground rules to do what they did because they have the tournament rules… to which I somewhat agree from the business point of view.

The problem comes in when you want to be recognised as sport: there are so many examples of athletes protesting for something taking advantage of the a Olympics… and afaik they were never banned from attending again.

Regarding the settlement, is only good for the company, people suing should always stand for the principle first. Unless you are blowing up something silly and you are in for the money, which we know it’s a national sport in the US.

[FMPONE]

I really doubt they will notice $10 million. Small price to pay to get this out of the headlines.

15 hours ago, blackdog said:

How is it still an “allegation” once you settle (and seemingly admitting to the accusations)?

Maybe @FMPONE the lawyer can enlighten me.

I mean, afaik/what Suits teaches me is that you could settle and not admit to fault but is pretty shit for victims to accept without a real win.

Also at the same time these people won “Esports studio of the year” because their tournaments are well organised, basically spoil the critics and you’ll be on the bright side, as basically admitted by Thorin in his latest video in the Esport Awards.

Most cases settle for a bunch of reasons, courts encourage it. Less risk, losing outright can be devastating even if you appeal. You don't want to find yourself at the mercy of a jury/judge.

[Radu]

"Over 830,000 Nintendo Switch consoles were sold in the United States last week, making for the system’s best overall sales week in its nearly 3 years out in the wild."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/355143/Nintendo_sold_over_830000_Switch_consoles_during_Thanksgiving_week_alone.php

[Radu]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:07 PM, Radu said:

"Riot Games to pay $10 million in gender discrimination settlement. The settlement of a class-action lawsuit over allegations of discrimination at League of Legends developer Riot Games will see the studio paying out $10 million to women that worked at the studio in the past five or so years."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/355008/Riot_Games_to_pay_10_million_in_gender_discrimination_settlement.php

"Women suing Riot Games may deserve $400 million, not $10 million, state regulator says.

Two state agencies are taking the unusual step of trying to stop Riot Games from paying out $10 million to female employees as part of a settlement over a gender discrimination class action suit.

The state thinks the women could be entitled to as much as $400 million instead."

https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-01-21/riot-games-gender-discrimination-settlement