Map talk. [Help me decide]

[Tensei]

Hello guys. Basically this is just the map idea.

Lets forget the environment and brushwork and theme for now. It's industrial anyways.

Recently 3kliksphilip had a talk about "interactive maps", but i don't want to radically make destroyable walls or add Alladin's pigeons, or whatsoever. It would be too much for neverchanging Counter-Strike gameplay. As some could say "too much of something is too much"

So as my map is planned it is defusal map with 2 bombsites, mid area and ofcourse with an alternative route to one of the bombsites. Mid area has connectors to each of the bombsite. Bombsite A has main route and mid connector, thats all. Bombsite B has main route, alternative one and mid connector.

The problem is Bombsites are so close to each other, but i don't want to relocate bombsites anywhere! So everything is all about midcontrol. It's nothing new though, but i don't want my map to be like any others.

The real problem is... The bombsite B is just right after mid connector. When i say this, i mean "literally"

So as MID area being hangar, it should have something like gates. Yeah, thats the thing i want to set oneway interractive. Once you open those gates they will never be closed.

Gates can only be opened with button which is going to be in snipers nest which is going to be hangar's electricity control point. But if gates open right away. I am positive that adding 10 second countdown which everyone can hear around the map from speakers.

I think it would add more trickery to the map and fakeplays and everything, but right now it seems like only terrorists advantage. Nope i am not going to make main route extremely hard. Because it is not only terrorists advantage. once doors have been opened those doors will be as retake option for CT's. On the other hand, CT's can exterminate Terrorists while 10 second countdown is going on. For example, they are all waiting at the doors to go "Allahu akbar",but CT's are going to counter them with offense and literally burn them out with molotovs and nades and then maybe shoot them with those M4's and whatever else they have. To make that possible, there is going to be windows all around hangar as a light source.

Oh. Almost forgot. When you press the button as terrorists, don't you leave CT's guessing "Which way will they execute now". Because basically, you can just do a split A rush suddenly instead of B execute. Im sure it will make CT's panic alot.

Seems pretty interesting to me.

So what do you guys think?

[spaly]

I generally like the concept of interactive parts, and I sure think your idea would be a great addition after a LOT of playtests and optimizations.

My main concerns are that these doors would be mostly unsuitable for retakes because for once CT's need to determine whether the door is open or closed (if they are not able to open it from their aproach side), and even if this was just a shortcut from the existing longer route, It would most probably be less strategic and more rushy because the CT's wont come up with strat A for gate open and strat B for door closed.

Also I doubt that the controls would be intuitive, and bugless, but thats a question of hammer  

These are just my thoughs on this, and they may be completely irrellevant if the elements are placed right and can be seen from far enough to make clever decisions. I recommend you to just put them in there and get the map ready for a playtest, maybe without the people knowing, so you can see how well it fits in the plays.

[jackophant]

What did I just read? TLDR: You want to add big sliding doors that take 10 seconds to open? 

[Tensei]

What did I just read? TLDR: You want to add big sliding doors that take 10 seconds to open? 

10-9-8..2-1 In sound alert and doors opens in like 2 seconds. After timer hits 0.

I generally like the concept of interactive parts, and I sure think your idea would be a great addition after a LOT of playtests and optimizations.

My main concerns are that these doors would be mostly unsuitable for retakes because for once CT's need to determine whether the door is open or closed (if they are not able to open it from their aproach side), and even if this was just a shortcut from the existing longer route, It would most probably be less strategic and more rushy because the CT's wont come up with strat A for gate open and strat B for door closed.

Also I doubt that the controls would be intuitive, and bugless, but thats a question of hammer  

These are just my thoughs on this, and they may be completely irrellevant if the elements are placed right and can be seen from far enough to make clever decisions. I recommend you to just put them in there and get the map ready for a playtest, maybe without the people knowing, so you can see how well it fits in the plays.

SPEAKERS around map to know that someone is trying to open doors. Control with button is at CT side of mid which is going to some kind of a room. Well i will post some pictures when i have realised the MID area. Right now it's just a 4 walls and roof

[Guest]

10-9-8..2-1 In sound alert and doors opens in like 2 seconds. After timer hits 0.

The problem isn't the amount of time it takes, it's the idea itself. It's just not a good idea, both in theory and practice.

[tomm]

just do it man

[Kochi]

I would say no. 

If you're making a slide door that take10 seconds to open just think: 

What the players will do in that 10 seconds?

What would they think about it ?

How does it effect of the gameplay of the map ?

The players are usually are remembering maps from something that you can't miss over there:

Zoo with the fishes all over bombsite B 

Agency with.. Well it's agency

Castle with the amazing look 

But if those things are ruin the gameplay, then that's the memory that the players will get this bad memory of waiting 10 seconds untik you can start the action

 

[Tensei]

 

But if those things are ruin the gameplay, then that's the memory that the players will get this bad memory of waiting 10 seconds untik you can start the action

 

Well, you have a point. There is no denying it. Well, i will realize these gates anyways. And when im done with layout and these gates and adjusted timings, i will add it to the playtest, because we can talk about this for a long time and never really know how it will go. As much as i remember there hasn't been competitive map like this. If it will be too unbalanced or boring, i just have to click once and press DEL button. And adjust move a bombsite a bit further away change layout of the bombsite.

[Kochi]

Well, you have a point. There is no denying it. Well, i will realize these gates anyways. And when im done with layout and these gates and adjusted timings, i will add it to the playtest, because we can talk about this for a long time and never really know how it will go. As much as i remember there hasn't been competitive map like this. If it will be too unbalanced or boring, i just have to click once and press DEL button. And adjust move a bombsite a bit further away change layout of the bombsite.

if you really want to make those gates 

You can make a slide door with trigger_multiple that will open the door ad soon as you touch that trigger.

This will add the gate without ruin the gameplay

[Tensei]

if you really want to make those gates 

You can make a slide door with trigger_multiple that will open the door ad soon as you touch that trigger.

This will add the gate without ruin the gameplay

I will try lots of things. With the area. 

[Kochi]

I will try lots of things. With the area. 

alright good luck

[Rick_D]

love the idea. the precedent is there from cs_office - in the old days if my memory isn't failing me it used to be openable only from the CT side of the garage but was later changed.

there is nothing wrong with the idea but be prepared to move the button based on playtests:

- perhaps putting the button next to the B site entrance would work, perhaps putting the button right next to the door in Mid works best - perhaps players don't make the connection between the button and the door, etc. As long as you can approach it with an open mind.

and be prepared to make the timer shorter:

- 10 seconds is a long time in-game, maybe the door simply opening slowly so after 1 second you can throw flashes and smokes through the gap, and after  3 seconds you can begin crouching to get underneath it, but your movement is slowed because of this, and by 5 seconds you can just run straight in.

 and be prepared to not go down the route of global countdowns:

- global sounds in CSGO are a bit overpowering, if you are trying to listen to someone on the other side of the map and there is a lot of ambient noise it will interfere with the gameplay, if the sound of the door opening just happens to be quite loud and audible from 2048 units then sure, it gives audio cues to players nearby - and if the button is pressed randomly by a player then they would need to communicate that they have done so instead of letting the map tell them, further increasing the need for communication between teams.

 

personally i think it's neat to have these kind of things, they are just extensions of doors or breakable windows or metal panels that can be broken. this is just another tool to add variety and a unique flavour to a map, and like i said it's been done before in official maps and players learn to deal with the gameplay it offers.

don't be put off by 'pro players' who only want a static map with zero props and fullbright lighting,

[Vaya]

I wouldn't have the door as a *vital* point but one good to have. opening the door 15 times in a row would get tiresome and remove depth from the map rather than add it.

[mr.P]

for some reason I thought it was our good 'ol PhilipK you were talking about, and that got me all hyped up, I might just be old and dusty but pretty sure other people might think the same anyways, I enjoy this topic,

 

in cs-history there has been a few maps like this, one of the first map I ever played in CS had a similar feature...

cs_bunker anyone? ...bet some people (hopefully) remember that, there was also another super cool map called foption, where the T had to open a door at the start of every round (somewhat annoying after a few rounds but the brushwork on that map was amaaaaaaazing)

 

[JustFredrik]

I like the idea, I've been thinking of implementing this idea aswel.

The ability for both teams to switch up the battlefield would make the map alot more dynamic, I think its possible to execute this and make a good competetive map. It will be hard but I think that if you're dedicated to your idea, you will succeed.