Game industry questionmarks

[Furyo]

Being one to keep close ties with industry recruiters as I try and place more and more of my friends in these tough times, I can promise you they all agree it's never been tougher for entry level applicants. So this will be my only addition to this thread that covers it all already: Yes try and get a degree. You absolutely never know what may come years down the road. And a degree helps you every day in ways you don't imagine when studying.

Examples?

A friend of mine is currently applying for permanent residency status in Canada (not Kleineh, guys ) and he's now in his late 30s. His english isn't so good. Guess what? All these things add up as points on a government grid that declares him eligible or not. And now he's not certain to get it because he waited that long before applying. Having a degree would make him a certain candidate.

You can talk to your banker about that, but trust me he'll feel a lot better giving you a loan knowing you have studied and can always resort to having another job if things get tough.

Insurances? Same thing.

So yes plan for your future. Absolutely do. You may be as lucky as some of us here (me included) and land a job on your first interview after having done a single map in a large corporation where jobs are safe, but you could just as well work your way through tons of hurdles for years to come. And that's not talent specific, it's the luck part others have written about. Be on the safe side, these days it's not only a "nice thing to have" I consider it mandatory.

With that said, I feel like wishing you the best of luck because I know from your first post you are level-headed and yes your heart is indeed in the right place. You are currently considering and pondering all the aspects of that decision, and that's a lot more than what I can say for so many enthusiasts out there.

[kleinluka]

^^^^^ what he said.

A friend of mine is currently applying for permanent residency status in Canada (not Kleineh, guys ) and he's now in his late 30s. His english isn't so good. Guess what? All these things add up as points on a government grid that declares him eligible or not. And now he's not certain to get it because he waited that long before applying. Having a degree would make him a certain candidate.

slightly off-topic, but... is he in Quebec? Cause then he should not be afraid about english it doesnt really matter that much for quebec... (send me a steam message or something as response, dont wanna derail this tread)

[Furyo]

Yes he's at Ubi montreal. I'll pass that along.

Back to topic

[2d-chris]

Still the fact is - if your good at what you do, you will find work. If you are not good and have a qualification you will not. If your good and have a qualification you will. Yes i'm an optimist

All you have to do is decide if you're willing to study for 3 years or go for it now I kind of miss not going to Uni/College just because of the social scene.

Never underestimate modding, even if the mod dies chances are you will meet lots of interesting people many of who are in the industry or will be soon. I never did a game design degree but in most cases you don't get the same kind of FREE exposure. When it comes to the arts industries the age old "it's who you know not what you know" really is true ... at least when it comes to breaking in to the industry.

[sarge mat]

It can be a good idea (IMO) to study something completely different that interests you. I am on a HND in Media Production and while it’s not an area I want to get into at the moment I love the production and post production of films, so its showed me I might like to make Documentaries at some point in my life. There are always the core skills like working in a team that you will get on most courses too.

I also only go three days a week so that leaves 4 to work on levels. Although I was very lazy for the first part of the year but getting a good few hours in each day I am off now.

[Furyo]

Still the fact is - if your good at what you do, you will find work. If you are not good and have a qualification you will not. If your good and have a qualification you will. Yes i'm an optimist

All you have to do is decide if you're willing to study for 3 years or go for it now I kind of miss not going to Uni/College just because of the social scene.

Never underestimate modding, even if the mod dies chances are you will meet lots of interesting people many of who are in the industry or will be soon. I never did a game design degree but in most cases you don't get the same kind of FREE exposure. When it comes to the arts industries the age old "it's who you know not what you know" really is true ... at least when it comes to breaking in to the industry.

Just to clarify my position, I do agree with your post. Modding still is one of the safest way to get in the industry when you're a designer. Art wise? Not so sure as there are plenty of great programs out there. My position regarding getting a degree is all about preparing your future. When you're 35-40 (or whatever) and you become tired of designing levels, that degree will help. Again if you're a designer, no program out there can help you more than modding experience would.

[rockdude86]

"drunken rant"

that's al very interesting info you guys put up here i've been reading a lot about how to get into the industry.

i'm considering to attent a art school of some sort preferably a game design education.

the thing i struggle the most with right now is what school/direction do i want to go?

here in the netherlands there has been a insane growth of game design schools courses etc...

some of them are pretty good but theres a LOT of crap education where they dont really prepare you well for the real thing so it can be pretty frustrating to find one you're really happy with

i've been doing level design for about 7 years now just doing whatever i want to, lost interest more than once over the years and found myself pickin up the work again and again so i've become pretty sure that i really like to do this.

never really finished anything though, working on my grale map for over 4 years sometimes makes me think i never will finish it but im getting closer haha

learned a hell of a lot of things from it and eventhough i find learning programs like photoshop and 3dsmax really fun it really bothers me that i cant have direct feedback on something i create ofcourse i can get enough feedback throught the internet but dont think its anything compared to being in a real school where you work together with a lot of people and that makes me want to attent school again.

im really curious about how others around here got to be where they are right now so looking forward to reading more here.

"/drunken rant"

[Jetsetlemming]

I saw someone say "Learn some texturing" as a recommendation. How exactly does one do that? I was under the impression that while there's a lot of mechanical stuff, knowing how to shop, knowing about the formats and sizes and different layers and stuff, the core thing for making a texture is an artistic skill.

[Hourences]

Then develop a basic artistic skill for 2D Art? If you want to do level design you better understand why textures have the colors, shapes, layouts, etc they have anyhow. It is a small step up from that to creating your own textures. They don't have to be briliant, but basic knowledge really...

Rockdude when I started there were no educations yet. The same goes for many people. We all got in through modding and just working really hard and getting lucky. Times have changed now though, so again, the question whether or not to attend a school is a rather complex one and depends on many things.

I am partially Dutch, there are indeed many bad schools but also a couple of good ones apperantly. The one in Breda seems quite decent for example. I have been considering starting up my own level design education, not a full time one, but a one day in a week type of course. It would be quite costly though, to get the expenses covered, so I wonder how much someone would pay for such a very specialized course?

[rockdude86]

ah thats pretty cool hourences.

have been checking out a few schools already theres one in zwolle wich is the nearest for me but its not really a good one. have to check the one in breda though so tnx for the info

also i've been looking around for private schools like qantm college in amsterdam but thats really costing because you cant get a scholarship for that here.

[Sentura]

I have been considering starting up my own level design education, not a full time one, but a one day in a week type of course. It would be quite costly though, to get the expenses covered, so I wonder how much someone would pay for such a very specialized course?

i think that's a brilliant idea. you should try and contact a few universities and see whether they would be interested in creating a course for that sort of thing. otherwise i reckon it would be too costly for all parties involved.

[Skjalg]

Hourences, in this day and age, why go to the trouble of setting up a course at a uni or something.

Why not just press record and fraps your monitor and speak into your microphone or something and sell "episodes" for like 10$ each?

[Hourences]

Because for that you need flawless English. If its face to face theres more to it than just your English, plus, not living in the UK or the USA most of my students wouldnt be native english speakers anyhow. Now that would be different if I were to sell videos.

I also think it is important to give face to face feedback on issues, and talk things through. It is about more than just explaining how to make a cube basically, and stuff never works out like you explain it. You can explain how to do this or that but the guy is likely going to experience something that wasnt planned nor mentioned in your video.

And, there are quite a few videos and tutorials already. Specialized classes on the other hand...

I have considered setting up a net education environment though and do full online courses, but Im not sure much interest there would be in that, and perhaps more importantly, if I would be able to handle the much larger workload that brings.

It's still something I consider doing though. Plus its an idea I could really far by taking in additional people later on and all.

And about teaming up with a uni: then you get the crap that the uni would like me to have at least a bachelor in whatever, or perhaps even a teachers degree. And I'd have to listen and convince people that know nothing of this all the time...

[Skjalg]

You dont need an education to teach at uni anymore, the school can take you in on "special terms" for teaching a lesser course. (Its usually used for students teaching other students, but works for outsiders with no degrees who are specialists at their field as well). It doesnt apply to science subjects ofcourse, but for a level design course; sure.

This is at least the way things work in norway.

But if you really spend some time to plan out videos and make them lengthy and in detail, explaining basically everything you could most likely sell well. Even with a weird english accent, which probably wont be so bad once you redo the voice on the videos 10 times

[Sentura]

And about teaming up with a uni: then you get the crap that the uni would like me to have at least a bachelor in whatever, or perhaps even a teachers degree. And I'd have to listen and convince people that know nothing of this all the time...

i don't know whether you've tried to pitch this to any universities yet, but i know the one i am at right now would welcome you with open arms. you've released books, you've got a strong portfolio and good work references. if that doesn't say anything about you skill level, then what does?

if a university tells you you're lacking a degree or whatever, explain to them what it means to have hands on experience and how you can teach people for more practicality. while theory may be academic, it doesn't work well when you're sitting in a corporate environment. if they can't understand that, it's their loss. it's not like you're going to beg them to take you when there are thousands of universities in europe alone; and i am willing to bet there are more than one that would willingly accept a pitch or proposal.

if you really want to do teach vis-a-vis, it's probably the most accessible solution.