DE_CACHE (new version)

[monolith]

15 hours ago, El_Exodus said:

Many still can't make the first jump. So calm your banana.

I'm not sure how that's a good point. That's like saying the ladder speed nerf in 2015 was okay because, "Oh, I couldn't do the ladder strafe to pallet on Nuke anyway!"

But now you will never be able to do it. Just like the self-boost. Now you will never be able to do the original jump in a match.

[Vaya]

10 hours ago, monolith said:

I'm not sure how that's a good point. That's like saying the ladder speed nerf in 2015 was okay because, "Oh, I couldn't do the ladder strafe to pallet on Nuke anyway!"

But now you will never be able to do it. Just like the self-boost. Now you will never be able to do the original jump in a match.

Times change.

[blackdog]

14 hours ago, monolith said:

I'm not sure how that's a good point. That's like saying the ladder speed nerf in 2015 was okay because, "Oh, I couldn't do the ladder strafe to pallet on Nuke anyway!"

But now you will never be able to do it. Just like the self-boost. Now you will never be able to do the original jump in a match.

 

3 hours ago, Vaya said:

Times change.

More importantly, @monolith you are talking about polar opposites: the examples you make is removing something, while the Cache change adds allowing more people to do it.

[Interfearance]

@blackdog As devil's advocate here, does adding the platform not remove the skill needed and necessity to complete the old jump? What was wrong with the previous version?

[blackdog]

1 hour ago, Interfearance said:

@blackdog As devil's advocate here, does adding the platform not remove the skill needed and necessity to complete the old jump? What was wrong with the previous version?

Of course it makes it easier, but the first part is still very hard, to the point that YouTubers that show this kind of things still can’t do it at the first attempt.

By the way, it’s not just about the jump, the platform gives a new angle for Ts that boost. It gives something to hide under to CTs that push mid, so creates new corners for players to check.

Not sure if is good or bad, playtime will tell. But is better to try new things and then change, then keep everything as it was.

I think the Cache update is super-iterative, something that should/could have been done a few years back and something that I would see all maps go through. Small changes to balance the game, accommodate new meta that players develop… then after a couple of substantial minor updates (like this), remake/remaster the map radically, allowing for substantial changes in layout.

[Interfearance]

@blackdog I for one am not really too opposed to the platform because the old one was pretty hard and more of a novelty than a reliable route. It is a good part to experiment on. This iterative mapping based on feedback reminds me: Why is stopping Valve from trying to find ways to balance unpopular maps like Train and Nuke? 

[NikiOo]

20 hours ago, Interfearance said:

@blackdog I for one am not really too opposed to the platform because the old one was pretty hard and more of a novelty than a reliable route. It is a good part to experiment on. This iterative mapping based on feedback reminds me: Why is stopping Valve from trying to find ways to balance unpopular maps like Train and Nuke? 

I don't think balance is the issue with Nuke and Train, they're just not the most fun maps to play on.

A map can be very competitive, and I think train is a really good competitive map, but not very attractive for the average player.

[Interfearance]

@NikiOo So I am a causal? Are we going to have a problem here? But seriously, Nuke is my most played map, but outside is an atrocity. 3 smokes are required to safely make it to secret, and 2 if you have a ballsy awper. The overall size is not the problem, rather the ridiculous sightlines from the CT area (heaven, ct stairs headglitch, hell, below heaven, etc). On train, the problems are pretty obvious if you have ever watched a 1v1. There are an infinite amount of spots to check on and around the trains after plant, and the 1v1s usually devolve to aimless circling around the train cars. On B there are also too many huge sightlines from back yellow, and it doesn't help that the visibility is a joke. I'm pretty sure the only thing making them competitive is the fact that they are in the pool.

[csWaldo]

The AC isn't perfectly era accurate and part of a gameplay gimmick became slightly less gimmicky.

If this is the feedback you get then the map must be near perfect

 

Map looks cool, good job  

[Le1T]

20. Real sewer manhole looks better.

Spoiler

21. The same thing about the electric cabinet.

Spoiler

 

P.S. Please, remove fucking conditioners. 

P.S.S. CS 1.6 >>> CS:GO. Because CS 1.6 was created in order to play the best game on the planet; CS:GO was created in order to play the case opening simulator.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Le1T

[fewseb]

Your profile picture is surprisingly fitting

 

42 minutes ago, Le1T said:

P.S.S. CS 1.6 >>> CS:GO. Because CS 1.6 was created in order to play the best game on the planet; CS:GO was created in order to play the case opening simulator.

CS 1.6 was created to make an authentic Counter Terrorism operations shooter focused on realism and tactics, CSGO was created to be the xbox and ps4 and compete with COD and Battlefield. Both games came a long way from where they started.

[Le1T]

1 hour ago, fewseb said:

Your profile picture is surprisingly fitting

I'm really happy what we have now. Map is perfect. But... maybe add more greens ?

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, fewseb said:

CSGO was created to be the xbox and ps4 and compete with COD and Battlefield. Both games came a long way from where they started.

that's why Gooseman and Cliffe left VALVE. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Le1T

[fewseb]

7 minutes ago, Le1T said:

that's why Gooseman and Cliffe left VALVE.  

Gooseman left in 2007 because Valve wouldnt let him work on Counter Strike 2 mainly because they didnt want him making the realistic tactical shooter he always wanted to make, he really didnt like how CS became all about the competitive side and preferred 12 v 12 instead of 5 v 5.

Cliffe may or may not still be working at Valve but if he did leave he either left because he was in jail for a month do to a false charge against or was fired for the same thing. He was very active on the CSGO team up until he was arrested.

[blackdog]

5 hours ago, fewseb said:

Gooseman left in 2007 because Valve wouldnt let him work on Counter Strike 2 mainly because they didnt want him making the realistic tactical shooter he always wanted to make, he really didnt like how CS became all about the competitive side and preferred 12 v 12 instead of 5 v 5.

In every recount I’ve heard, Gooseman never blamed Valve for anything, he says in this interview at 16 min that he couldn’t work with the restrictions the community creates. Not sure how that translates in mandare in the company, but I remember he always talked about having lots of freedom. I think to remember, maybe from elsewhere -there are several interviews he has done- that he felt too under pressure to deliver the sequel.

I don’t know, i played so much the original GoldSrc mods, still I was just a casual player and as such I wanted fun stuff added to the games, I remember fantasising with my friends what would be possible in DoD and CS thanks to the new physics engine: we wanted the disable vehicles like BF, we wanted object manipulation to create cover, etc.

What he did in his indie game had lots of fun ingredients, just took too long to build, and was still very clunky when shown. 

[fewseb]

1 hour ago, blackdog said:

In every recount I’ve heard, Gooseman never blamed Valve for anything, he says in this interview at 16 min that he couldn’t work with the restrictions the community creates. Not sure how that translates in mandare in the company, but I remember he always talked about having lots of freedom. I think to remember, maybe from elsewhere -there are several interviews he has done- that he felt too under pressure to deliver the sequel.

I don’t know, i played so much the original GoldSrc mods, still I was just a casual player and as such I wanted fun stuff added to the games, I remember fantasising with my friends what would be possible in DoD and CS thanks to the new physics engine: we wanted the disable vehicles like BF, we wanted object manipulation to create cover, etc.

What he did in his indie game had lots of fun ingredients, just took too long to build, and was still very clunky when shown. 

It was some HLTV interview from 2011 or 2010, he said Valve wouldn't let him or cliffe make changes they wanted to make when Source was still be updating because Valve was afraid of the community getting miffed. He also implied other projects in the company were constantly getting in front of Counter Strike 2 going into full development.