Need advice for indoor lightning in source engine

[laminutederire]

I have to admit I'm a newbie in mapping, but it seems it is really different and more difficult to have a natural lightning in the source engine, than it can be with pbr software. For outdoors areas, there not so much issues, but for indoor areas outside light does not suffice and I always have to add some more lights, but it isn't quite believable though. I don't know if I explained it right, but I wondered if you guys had any tips for me because the documentation I have found is more helpful to build good old industrial maps if needed I can post screenshots.

Thanks in advance to you all

[tomm]

I'm not all that experienced when it comes to lighting, but I think it's best to experiment, make a small test map and try out different light setups and see what works best for you.

 

what I usually do is combine both light_spot and a simple light together, usually the light_spot is the main light with high inner and outer angles so the light has greater reach. I think it looks more natural this way. The simple light is usually just a very subtle light to give it more 'life' I guess.

 

also a pretty useful vid:

 

but yeah, I'd also like to hear some tips from more experienced people.

Edited May 1, 2015 by tomm

[Gooby]

make sure to edit the quadratic, linear and constant values of your lights. Usually it's set to 100% quadratic 0% linear 0% constant, which probably doesn't light indoor areas that well, as quadratic means it starts at 100% brightness and quickly depletes down to 0%. Add more constant or use light_spot with a high constant instead. Also take a look at de_inferno and de_mirage, for example, they have nice looking indoor lighting.

but first watch that vid ^^^^^^^^^^

[AkatsukiUK]

I recently just got my level to a solid release stage that is indoors only. I made it to challenge the editor in creating indoor environments. It is really hard to light well.

 

Fairly new to Hammer myself I looked at how a lot of the official maps were lit. Now of course they all have outdoor skyboxes, but maps like Office have quite a large section indoors. 

 

You will need more lights than what would seem sane in some areas to really light the level realistically. I found using light_spots in conjunction with the normal lights worked well. Office employs the same process. The other thing I would look at experimenting with is the 'falloff' settings in the lights properties. This allows you to take a single light source and expand its influence outwards or inwards by a specific amount.

 

This topic is really handy, something I bookmarked early on

 

Lighting Tips

 

Hope this is of some help. My level is de_subliminal if you fancy checking it out.

[sevin]

Why do people insist on misspelling "lighting" to "lightning"? Two very different things. I clicked on this thread thinking you were trying to put lightning indoors...

As for your questions, I'd recommend checking out these guides:

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19133

http://magnarj.net/article_funclight.html

Lighting can be really fun and greatly influences the flow and feel of your map. It is one of the only things that greatly impacts the gameplay and aesthetics of your map. Learn it well.

Edited May 1, 2015 by sevin

[laminutederire]

Thanks everybody I asked also because I have trouble with curved areas!

[laminutederire]

I recently just got my level to a solid release stage that is indoors only. I made it to challenge the editor in creating indoor environments. It is really hard to light well.

Fairly new to Hammer myself I looked at how a lot of the official maps were lit. Now of course they all have outdoor skyboxes, but maps like Office have quite a large section indoors.

You will need more lights than what would seem sane in some areas to really light the level realistically. I found using light_spots in conjunction with the normal lights worked well. Office employs the same process. The other thing I would look at experimenting with is the 'falloff' settings in the lights properties. This allows you to take a single light source and expand its influence outwards or inwards by a specific amount.

This topic is really handy, something I bookmarked early on

Lighting Tips

Hope this is of some help. My level is de_subliminal if you fancy checking it out.

I checked it out when you posted in the work release section, your level should have been more painful though, since yours do not profit from exterior light

[AkatsukiUK]

hehe it was more slow than painful. With every version change I would check each lit area in-game with a friend, and then adjust/circle lights in my notes that needed adjusting. I would definitely say that this appears to be the Source engines biggest drawback and outdoor levels always look great when lit even with dev textures.

Edited May 1, 2015 by AkatsukiUK

[laminutederire]

hehe it was more slow than painful. With every version change I would check each lit area in-game with a friend, and then adjust/circle lights in my notes that needed adjusting. I would definitely say that this appears to be the Source engines biggest drawback and outdoor levels always look great when lit even with dev textures.

The pain is that you have to compile each time you want to change something

[AkatsukiUK]

ha yea. That's why you buy a coffee machine 

[Squad]

Interlopers -  Advanced Lighting: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/17779

 

Interlopers - Lighting Tips & Advice: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/29797

 

Interlopers - Spotlights: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/1780

 

Definately also the one that AkatsukiUK posted.

 

Furthermore, do check out official maps (also the little less known maps like militia) to see how it's done. Don't be afraid to decompile maps (also custom ones) to check how lights entities are set up.

[laminutederire]

Interlopers - Advanced Lighting: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/17779

Interlopers - Lighting Tips & Advice: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/29797

Interlopers - Spotlights: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/1780

Definately also the one that AkatsukiUK posted.

Furthermore, do check out official maps (also the little less known maps like militia) to see how it's done. Don't be afraid to decompile maps (also custom ones) to check how lights entities are set up.

Can I check yours? Because I tried with office interior lights method but since the mood was quite different, and what I want to do is closer to what you did

Oh and also I discovered workout is an interesting map to check out thanks to the generosity of its creator

Edited May 2, 2015 by laminutederire

[Squad]

 

Interlopers - Advanced Lighting: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/17779

Interlopers - Lighting Tips & Advice: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/29797

Interlopers - Spotlights: http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/1780

Definately also the one that AkatsukiUK posted.

Furthermore, do check out official maps (also the little less known maps like militia) to see how it's done. Don't be afraid to decompile maps (also custom ones) to check how lights entities are set up.

Can I check yours? Because I tried with office interior lights method but since the mood was quite different, and what I want to do is closer to what you did

Oh and also I discovered workout is an interesting map to check out thanks to the generosity of its creator

 

 

Sure.

[laminutederire]

Thanks

[pjw0]

The links posted by AkatsukiUK and Squad above should be very helpful.

 

A few other thoughts to add/reinforce:

 

Lighting attenuation is important to understand in Source engine (quadratic, linear, constant properties). This is the main article: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Constant-Linear-Quadratic_Falloff

 

Remember from algebra/calculus: limit as X approaches infinity, only the highest powered exponent is relevant. Quadratic (X^2) is much more powerful than Linear (X). When you want to get something in between quadratic and linear, the linear coefficient will need to be larger (i.e. 1:1:0 will be barely different from 1:0:0).

 

Most of the time, linear looks better than quadratic or constant, especially for 'light' entities indoors.

 

You should be able to get a lot of environmental light inside, depending on how big your windows are. Running VRAD with '-final' option (=== '-extrasky 16', see https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/VRAD), or -extrasky at 4+, will help the light coming through windows to be less patchy (smoother). Making the light_environment stronger will also help get more light inside.

 

Texturing the ground outside, especially with a bright texture, will help probably much more than you think. Light bounces off the ground, so the difference between the ground outside the window being nodraw or bricks or grass will mean a big change to the light bouncing onto the windowframe and the ceiling near the window. Having a pale-colored ceiling (bright, desaturated) may multiply this by having this light bounce more inside.

 

You could 'cheat' with your windows by putting light_spot entities in them, facing directly into the room (perpendicular to the window). I've never tried this, but if you match the skylight color, or the overall color of the view out the window, use low brightness, and leave a big difference between the inner and outer angles, it seems like you should be able to get a good effect. You could even use two, one pitched up slightly and the other down slightly, colored with the color of the sky and the color of the ground.

Edited May 2, 2015 by pjw0