de_fracture feedback/comments

[kinggambit]

Thought I'd keep a small thread for feedback as well as any comments/ideas for my current map project, de_fracture (workshop)

 

UPDATE:25-4-2014

Thanks for play testing my map again everyone. I'll be sure to pack the radar correctly next time. 

I tried to remember all the suggestions but if I haven't listed them below, feel free to post your ideas/criticisms:

• Some suggested I open up the doorway at B hall to mid. I will test it out for my next build but 2 things I worry about is that:

1. CT's can exploit flanks to mid too easily by rushing B hall.

2. The new balcony too strong of a position/might promote camping.

3. It might make CT rotations from B to A through mid harder if a T is guarding there.

• (Ambient) lighting needs to be brighter (some dark areas)

•  Remove "BEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAP" sound

• Apply clear/cheap water texture at B 

 

 

 

 

Gallery

 

Mid:

 

A site:

 

B site:

 

 

 

 

Long A:

 

B Hall:

 

Overview (T @ top, CT @ bottom, A @ right, B @ left)

Edited April 25, 2014 by kinggambit

[Vinneri]

In mid you could make that T entrance cover larger, make ct window (part where you can go through the container) smaller, so it's easier to know if someone is there. It's really crucial flanking spot. Also imo don' let players get over the pit. After those it could be better. Also I'm wondering are you going to do something to the only straight way to A, like simplify the ct side by removing peaking corners or parts where you could only see the head of ct or just add little more cover for T's, as T it was really hard to take. Some places were little too claustrofobic for me, but interested to see the progress. Last thing I noticed was, that B bomb was imo too complex. But yeah, going to be good. Happy mapping!

ps. What about if you made for T's faster and straight access to that "ct window". Then A bomb site could be more interesting bombsite and you can leave T's mainroute (long with water) as it is.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Vinneri

[El Moroes]

To be honest, I had some difficulties to find my way through your map. I think for the next playtest you should work on these points in a first time to have a good playtest only focused on the gameplay, the aesthetic will come later (and the thematic intrigues me, it makes me curious ) :

 

- clean the main paths and avoid fake accesses 

 

- simplify and remove useless details in your geometry ; it will be much easier for us to understand how your map is build, how your layout is working

 

- try to use the same dev textures for the floors / walls / ceilings / ... 

 

- work on your lights and put them where it's useful,  where it could help the player to find the way to the bombsite, choke points and remove them where it's useless (I remember a white light in a bend on my left - I followed it and it was a blocked passage)

 

- add lights where it's too dark (like in the containers)

 

- add a radar with a clean overview

 

I'm conscient that these points give you a lot of work on the map but I honestly think that your map needs these modifications, as I said above it will help us to have a better comprehension of your map and it will allow us to be more pertinent on our feedbacks

Edited April 1, 2014 by El Moroes

[kinggambit]

Vinneri:

yes, I'll definitely be fixing a lot of those.

 

-CT window at mid smaller (I might have to play with this one to get it to work)

-adding some cover for T's at long A (canal) and readjusting stairs to make it easier for T's

-Can you specify which claustrophobic areas?

1. I agree I will have to make a simpler vent for the ladder at mid. Seems to confuse a lot of people.
2. I will try to open up the bomb sites; I'm not sure how I can with B though because there's no room to work with without exposing the site to the upper B area (train tracks) which is too strong for T's.
3. I will leave the containers alone for now. Will change upon further testing.

-I know, B is ehhh. Like I said, no room 

-more cover for T's mid EDIT: actually, though I'm planning on adding a bit of cover, I'm going to hold back on this for now; one of my concerns is that a T camping T mid has too much vision to pick off rotating CT's. Also, I want to force T's to push their way up mid instead of sitting back.

 

As for mid, I will take into consideration removing the path between the gap, but I want to test it out more before I make that decision (I designed the path so that T's could boost over for fun tactics toward A like you suggested).

 

 

 

El Moroes:

Yeah, haha sorry about the textures, extra details, and dark spots and no radar (and that "WAAAAH" sound).    

This is my first serious map so I am a total noob to the testing process. 

 

-I'm changing props (i.e. fences) to make the environment cleaner to the player and removing unnecessary props/brushes. 

 

-"white light in a bend on my left - I followed it and it was a blocked passage" Was it T-spawn to A? I'll definitely use the lights sparingly. Thanks!

 

I'll be sure to visgroup the unnecessary func_details for next playtest.

 

 

HOOO BABY. I got a big checklist to work on!   Time to clean up mah map! Thanks again for feedback!

Edited April 2, 2014 by kinggambit

[Vinneri]

Ok, ready for some more feedback? I visited the map today second time and I have some suggestions for you. Of cource all are my opinions, so you might find some things to disagree. Anyways, here we go..

First of all I told you about that claustrofoby, I noticed that the reason for that was all the little brushboxes all over the map expecially A site made me feel so. Only in mid you can see littlebit more "clear" place. So both bombsites with dev textures made me fell that way. It also wouldn't be bad to have more outside areas in the map. It's critical if you want people to be able to use flashes and smokes effectively when taking bombsites.

In this picture you could make B site better, if you made this wall a lot wider. It gives more cover and makes the site more "controlable". So T's could either take the site from top or jump to the water (which color should be changed away from poison green ) I would like those things. The site is not so bad as you have heard. there is just too much vertical positions and little corners. Also I would like if the site itself was more open. it's atm shotgun heaven You could also remove little bit water just because real function with it is to get down without losing health, It's not really a good place to hold the site. So two main things: Make the bombsite more open, make the wall wider.

This next thing is really small.. Make these ladders to stairs so it makes the route more clear and functional (and helps with claustrofobic feeling).

Wall in blue could be larger, so CT's cannot se that part. Red is place where could be stairs. You said your idea is to let it be with bossting, but i would say it could be nice to have real stairs Also in very few CS maps you have pits that kill you. That possibility to drop down and die isn't IMO very good thing in fastpaced competitive CS map. So i would make a fence or smthing else to make it impossible (I think it's funny but not competitive )

pink means that that place blocks movement but don't really give any cover, be careful with those, because they make the map feeling more restricted, when optimal thing is to have open and nice atmosphere

Last thing in here is that questionmark. By that I mean you should think what kind of cover you want there to bee. do you want full cover or halfbody cover. which one makes the attacking fun but not too easy. This middle seems to be the most important part of the map. If you control mid you can do what ever you like. I like the idea. Harder part is to make it good. also if I remember right T's got really fast to the mid (faster that ct? no sure, but more time to ct's to take place couldn't be a bad idea.

This container is too dark

 

 As T side you always have to jump through this window.. I would change make the stairs here, because for me it's not fun to jump every single time to.. Please change it (the most important thing ever) Also that longjump part. it's really nice but I would recommend that make the bench lower so you don't have to jump twice to take that route. the jump to bench makes it less fluent so you should do something to make it better. ( the gap is pretty good size for jump)

I think that vent is unnecessary and increases complexity without a real benefit. I could be wrong but atm I think so

This is maybe the biggest thing you could think of changing. As T there is not many options to go A. what about making a route from that blue cargocrate to the doors. It could be huge if you would make the stairs to mid and this route. I would probably love to take that route It give's you second view to see the bombsite which is usually a good thing.

That's all what I have to say.. Change if you want or let them be. Some of those were really big changes so they might not fit with your ideas. I hope these help you!

 

EDIT:
PS!!! Make on a button in A that drops the cargobox down! <3

Edited April 3, 2014 by Vinneri

[kinggambit]

 

B

-Lower water + light change

-Wider walls

-Bigger/open B

Sounds good! Do you mean "wider wall" as in making the train tracks a "hallway"? (shown in picture below):

 

 

CT spawn ladder

-Change to ramp

Already did when you suggested it. 

 

 

CT window mid

-Make stairway to window

-clip off pit

-Cover bigger

-Close off gap

-Bigger cover

Ah I want to keep the layout for this one (at least for now).   The big canyon pit is a deliberate decision as a centerpiece (main theme/name of map); I completely agree that losing bomb/weapons is really annoying. Though I initially planned to design this map for competitive play, I wanted to prioritize a fun unique experience first. I understand this might break my map, but my main goal for de_fracture is to encourage newer and casual players to learn mechanics and tactics (i.e. surf, long jump, bunny hop, tactical grenades, team boosting).

 

I agree with your colored diagram though;

-I wanted a fun place for people to knife at the red area  but I agree it's better to just make it cleaner.

-Yes, I am planning on changing the pink blocks into bigger props since they are just place holders for now.

-I modeled bigger cover as you suggested; Ct's cant see T's, T's can't peak through the side either.

 

 

Container

-too dark

Fixed. 

 

 

CT mid vent

-unnecessary

Though I agree that it's clunky, I noticed that CT's rotating from B to A through mid takes waaay too long and is too risky (exposed from T sewers/T mid, CT window, Stairway).

I need a way for CT's to safely and quickly go to upper mid. 

I will keep this in mind though; if future play testing shows that it's not needed, I will definitely remove it.

 

 

T-side A entrance

-new route from cargo to A

I will hold back on this for now as I think it'd be too much of a change in positional strength; CT's would easily rotate between A and mid (if CT at mid calls mid rush, there's too much freedom for CT at A to rotate mid, then fall back to guard A again).

The ledge in your picture is intended for T's to boost over, serving a "second route".

 

 

Annnnd last, I think you will be happy with a lot of the clean up I did in some areas (Ehhh, I agree I will probably have to raise the roof for A site. I'm still not too happy with A):

http://imgur.com/a/Fw2S1

[Vinneri]

Sounds fantastic and yes I meant making the hallway like you draw