Ouch...

    Doing PR and recruiting is very humiliating. Recruiting is begging while being ignored. These could be the last spazms of the clochard he has been to make ND work.

    DaveL is like a running gag to me and many other people. I know enough irc logs to know that everything what other people say about his bad attitude is true. He has tried more then once to harm Insurgency by shit talking and trys to bring uneasieness in our team. For example by giving us the feeling that he has access to our ftp or spys within our team - how sick is that btw??

    I feel sorry for the people who work with him because the Mod looks great and seems to have big potential. Unfortunately that is overshadowed by negativeness caused by bad experiences people made with the project leader.

    steppenwolf: i'm happy to work with him. his attitude changed a lot in the beginning but he really knows what he's doing with the game design. yea he doesnt know alot about the actual content creation but he wouldnt have the time to do much anyway. yea he made false promises before but he also made it up again. and i think most will like the game when its released because actually it already IS fun to play.

    btw. it was me who added the posed soldiers to the map, simply because there was no time for a playtest anymore. the whole streetlevel area had to be pulled of in two weeks to meet the magazine deadline. if we would have waited for me to pack things up and distribute the files, sort issues (missing files for example) and organize a screenshot session we would've missed the deadline and there would have been no article. NO mod would want to miss a 3 page feature in a magazine, no matter what.

    for the curious people: ofcourse the models are animated and running around as in all the other screenshots.

    we dont hype the mod, we just give out some bits to the gamers and they are the ones who are going to hype us. no big deal because everyone would like to see their work being seen by as many people as possible. i think we're doing quality work and theres no reason to hide it. its everything but a vapourwave.

    if you belong to the ones who are pissed off with dave then feel free to go on but stay fair and objective enough to not pull the project itself down. you wouldnt want that either (especially here on mapcore where a lot of devs are).

    cheers

    (btw i made this post myself because usually really i like this place and was worried about mapcore becoming a place full of cocky flamers - i havent been forced by dave to do this)

    (oh and this is indeed my own opinion - i'm not here to represent ND or anyone else)

    What I said on the ND boards:

    DaveL said that most of the bloggers things was true, that the pictures wasn't really "ingame" (as in a game, not just a static image) and such.. So and that some of the media actually was photoshopped.

    So the blogger had quite a lot of good points, and he was actually right.

    If what DaveL said is true, then it's not a problem. But if it's just all bullshit, then I guess we still have to wait quite some time before we see some ingame ND action

    Btw. some of the "secret" images I've seen on the internets haven't got any HUD at all in them. There might be several reasons for that though, like it being turned off so that it's easier to see the whole screenshot.

    Now there is only 1 thing to do: Release ingame video.

    Quote from D3ads

    First time I've come across this guy but already I dislike him

    Yeah, I know plenty of people like that. I loved how Squirrelly asked him what skills he had and he tried to avoid saying he doesnt have any.

    Edit: IMO a project lead should at least have a basic knowledge of every aspect of mod design. I'm the co-lead of Ham And Jam and primarily I map, but I did all the basic coding for the mod when we didnt have a proper coder and I have a basic understanding of modelling/animating/skinning so if someone has a problem, I can at least try to help instead of getting someone else.

    I'll weigh in briefly with a few minor points.

    -I have had many conversations with DaveL when the project began and I do agree with some of the more senor concensus moving around that he is, to say nicely, fairly egotistical and overbearing which leads to difficulty in communicating.

    -I think if the people working on the mod are satisfied it's not our place to tell them that they are not. Perhaps he changed given all the people that quit (including Klein and myself at the same time, who I'm sure share very similar opinions.)

    -People don't join a mod because of cheesy upsell. There is a huge repository of cool looking shit that is out there for ND. This makes artists and level designers giddy to join up. Working on that mod probably WILL help you get a job because the portfolio work is so palattable.

    Anyway, that's just my opinion from the outside.

    Good luck Satan. You work is really good on the project and will help you get into the industry. Which is all most people are looking for anyway.

    I made that up.

    DaveL did try to get the leader of the mod I'm working on atm to quit and code for ND instead, and when he said no he started ripping into the mod, though .

    I thought Davel has changed but he hasn't. It's only a few days ago that a Insurgency prop made by me made it into a Incoming:Source map. Not a big deal. One of our devs who works for both mods uploaded it by accident to the other mod. It will be deleted.

    One day later Davel contacted me, asked me "isn't that your prop?". I wondered how the fuck would he know that and why does he care about that? Obviously he still has informants everywhere. Thats sick. He tried to influence me to start a modwar. That was so obvious. :roll:

    just weighing in a bit. I can see where people can get mad due to his attitude:

    Quote

    [13] as we're a multiplayer game[13] gameplay is hugely important, as levels are replayed time and time again

    :roll: I found that rather humorous. Almost any level designer out there knows replaying levels is important, it doesn't matter if its multi or singleplayer, you are going to test the hell out of your map to make sure its fun and doesn't break.

    I'm not really going to say much since I A) haven't talked with DaveL and B) have no general knowlege on this subject, only what was said here. sa7an, it was good to have your opinion here since it helped explain (hopefully) to people what really was going on. I'm kinda surprised to see this sort of practice start appearing in mods. Its not a shock I guess, since it was going to happen sooner or later.

    If I got mad at people for putting out bullshots, I'd barely be able to play any commercial games. Fibbing is just part of the game.

    Quote from Fletch

    If I got mad at people for putting out bullshots, I'd barely be able to play any commercial games. Fibbing is just part of the game.

    you said commercial game. that's the point. mods shouldn't have that kind of slimy PR.

    by the way, I saw once DaveL beating a little kitten, I swear!

    people have all the right to talk be angry about David if he pissed them off. yea i have quite a lot of logs where he pissed me off too. it took him half a year to get me join the mod but still i dont regret having joined. the developement is a lot smoother than with all the other mods i've worked on before and there is constant progress being made. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

    what i cant understand though is the constant bullshitting about the mod being ALL FAKE and a huge pile of crap. yea, you can read a lot of those commentaries around on other boards and i feared it might get that far on mapcore too. the people claiming that just dont know anything about ND yet they still pick up what influencial mod developers say about ND so i think its in their hands to act mature but yet they dont. i have yet to see one of the ND members (well, david aside) bullshitting on other mods or their devs work.

    a lot of people say that our behaviour hurts the "community". the community of mods and modding i think is meant. I personally think that this community has to grow up a little. modding is something that everyone can do as they want to. garry and even valve said its best to release mods early and build them up over time but mods like Natural-Selection and a lot of mods for other games aswell have shown that this is just not the ONLY and RIGHT way to make mods.

    also PR isnt something negative. we want our game to be played by as much people as possible and then articles like the CGW one are a big chance to make that happen. i dont see anything wrong in PR - even for mods.

    everyone knows that valve also faked their e3 demo, claiming it was acutal gameplay and there has been a lot of shittalking too. yet everyone - even the moaners - bought and played hl2. i could imagine that happening with ND too.

    as mojo said - you guys shouldnt act so shocked because it was going to happen sooner or later anyway its the same with custom maps. in the beginning it was usual to use the games textures but over time you were only noticed when you only used original content.

    i hope i dont make anything worse with my posts but i just wanted to get my opinion out there with the hope that someone might acutally read it

    cheers

    Quote from Sa74n

    people have all the right to talk be angry about David if he pissed them off. yea i have quite a lot of logs where he pissed me off too. it took him half a year to get me join the mod but still i dont regret having joined.

    That sounds like a lovestory

    But yeah, thanks for clearing things up

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