Ouch...

DaveL is a shady bastard who's got a brilliant career ahead of him in PR because of his underhand nature. Those who don't think he's a cock haven't either spoken to or witnessed him in action on IRC/blogs/forums.

For example, phoning people up and having half-hour conversations with them because they said something bad about his mod in public. Or perhaps demanding that negative comments about his mod be taken down from a blog. And let's not forget his excellent ability to hype people up over absolutely nothing, which I always suspected but only now realise to be true having read this thread.

In fact, just look through the comments of the blog this thread began with and I'm sure you'll find plenty of examples.

The mod may have promise, but with a leader who's too obsessed with looking good and hyping everybody up for his own fame and fortune, it's going nowhere. If I can be proved wrong and a quality mod actually released then all the better, but I can't forsee it.

Quote

[12] hey Campaignjunkie[12] hello

[12] how are you?

[12] fine, thanks

[12] you know who I am at all?

[12] I wouldn't suppose so

[12] no, unfortunately :\

[12] curious if we've spoken before

[12] ah ok

[12] David Lyon, project manager of Nuclear Dawn

[12] nice to meet you

[12] and you as well

[12] been looking at your site, very nice stuff

[12] thanks

[12] have you seen any Nuclear Dawn media?

[13] yeah, some, just sa74n's subway shots recently

[13] ok cool

[13] well, we're now at a stage we have a game to play, and I'm curious if you fancy coming onboard

[13] not as a die-hard core team member, but rather to build a level layout and work on the gameplay primarily over the course of a few months testing

[13] as we're a multiplayer game

[13] gameplay is hugely important, as levels are replayed time and time again

[13] essentially abused for any flaw

[13] if you are interested, I'll continue

[13] Sorry, I don't fancy multiplayer mapping too much, thanks for the offer though

[13] sure thing

Display More

He seemed nice enough to me. But in the face of this overwhelming testimony, I guess I was the exception rather than the usual? No matter what his behavior actually is, I think you guys might be making too big of a deal out of this. He's just a person - not a comic book villain.

I'll ask jonny5 to post a little something cj...

I personaly never had any problems with him, he has always treated me kindly... but he's always messing with my people (insurgency guys). You mess with my guys you mess with me :wink:

Not that I hate him or something but he's truely a funny guy

Nice guy or sneaky sod? It's a distinction that's sometimes very difficult to make.

Quote from The Postman

Postman: Hey

DaveL: Saw your work on your portfolio, very cool.

Postman: Thanks

DaveL: So would you be interested in working on an HL2 mod?

Postman: Not really, I'm busy with my own stuff and loads of stuff at work, but thanks anyhow.

DaveL: You sure?

Postman: Yeah, sorry man.

DaveL: Okay, it's not like we needed you anyways

Postman:

Display More

While it appears rude, I think it's just saying the team members and progress already were enough to provide for the mod, you were going to be nothing more than an extra. He knows your qualified, you're just not "needed". It's nothing rude or disrespectful there at all, he wasn't depending the whole mod on you. While that's a nice paraphrasing of the converstation, I've yet to see any real logs of the guy doing much disrespect.

I think DaveL is funny, I spoke to him once or twice on IRC, he has all rights to command the modification to whatever his likings are, it's his project and everyone has the choice to contribute or not. It's his project, his ideas and his choice how to treat people, this is just one case of a crybaby.

Quote from Skjalg

I dont get why you are all so pissed at DaveL for, what he did was just show that the stuff is fake, and that they are selling the skin before they've shot the bear...And no, just because "everyone is doing it" doesnt make it right...

About time someone stood up and did this, imho

God Im such a retard, I thought it was DaveL who had written the article... but that doesnt make much sense does it...

Anyyways, The guy has never done any harm as far as I've seen, and as long as it stays that way he's okaydokey for me :]~

According to king douchebag, the mod is showing progress despite what the photoshops show. Then, why didn't they release screenshots of the current progress instead of photoshoping old screenshots with old hud concept. Oh wait, what progress?

i would consider those maps and models to be progress

same here... BUT, they really should have had those player animations in by now instead of using positioned static props...

Quote from Pericolos0

more mods have done this you know... professional companies do it too...

So it's okay then?

Valve got bitched at for having most of the E3 footage and other promotional content not in their actual game (and also when they lied about a scene that had was supposed to have no scripted sequences)

CoD2 got called out for having prerendered cgi in it's ad, that didn't depict what the game actually looked like.

Well in their "pretend to be a game studio" setup, they got one thing right: lie like one.

Speaking to DaveL is like having someone ejaculate in your face for ten minutes non-stop. I initially humoured him but... now I just ignore the guy. I also found his constant name-dropping and trashing of other mods to be distasteful. His attitude is somewhat bemusing considering he talks down to people while having little editing/modding/leading experience himself.

ND may look the shit, but I don't think he's doing himself any favours whatsoever in the way he acts. Maybe one day he will realise this and the fact that all mods aren't run in a SERIOUS BUSINESS fashion. I can't say what sort of a leader he is to ND's members; all I can comment on is the way he conducts himself when speaking to other people. My experiences mirror posty's -- I find him to be a condescending hot-air merchant.

Quote from Defrag

Speaking to DaveL is like having someone ejaculate in your face for ten minutes non-stop. I initially humoured him but... now I just ignore the guy. I also found his constant name-dropping and trashing of other mods to be distasteful. His attitude is somewhat bemusing considering he talks down to people while having little editing/modding/leading experience himself.ND may look the shit, but I don't think he's doing himself any favours whatsoever in the way he acts. Maybe one day he will realise this. I can't say what sort of a leader he is to ND's members; all I can comment on is the way he conducts himself when speaking to other people. My experiences mirror posty's -- I find him to be a condescending hot-air merchant.

Has he dissed FF yet? The irony would be great if he said FF was unoriginal.

I wonder how the guy found any team members at all if hes such an idiot.

Does he do anything himself ? mapping, coding, graphics, whatever or just "leading" ?

Perhaps we should write a "how to pick the right mod" guide so new people dont end up with things like these anymore

to answer your question, Hourences, he hardly does jack shit besides being the PR bitch he is. here is a little (first) convo I've had with him...

Quote from mIRC Convo

(DaveL) your a texture artist I see (Squirrelly) yup

(Squirrelly) for insurgency

(DaveL) how long you been on insurgency?

(Squirrelly) just this week. i was hired due to my "normal mapping skills"

(DaveL) good stuff

(Squirrelly) not really though, but i think that is what got me hired

(Squirrelly) you guys have some talented staff as well

(Squirrelly) masako is really talente

(DaveL) yeah

(Squirrelly) so is phillip

(DaveL) well, we don't list a few of the staff

(DaveL) publically

(Squirrelly) oh

(DaveL) so how is insurgency going?

(Squirrelly) good

(DaveL) enjoying the project?

(Squirrelly) yeah

(DaveL) good stuff

(Squirrelly) looking to help another mod as well, but i can't seem to find any that are looking for texture artists that aren't "skinners"

(Squirrelly) hate it when they get the two mixed u

(Squirrelly) up*

(DaveL) you mean, environment textures (that go onto brushes etc.)

(DaveL) and those that skin 3d props?

(DaveL) are you trying to get in the industry?

(Squirrelly) for level design use

(Squirrelly) not right now

(Squirrelly) unless I'm offered a job

(DaveL) but you will be?

(Squirrelly) after i complete college

(DaveL) if you at all want to get into the business, I recommend learning how to "skin"

(DaveL) even model

(DaveL) it's the way it is all going

(Squirrelly) mmk

(Squirrelly) and what do you do yourself?

(DaveL) I am Nuclear Dawn's project manager

(Squirrelly) so, you don't really have any modding skills?

(DaveL) I have various skills that are required to produce ND

(Squirrelly) development, then

(Squirrelly) development skills

(Squirrelly) have any?

(DaveL) in terms of directly producing assets?

(Squirrelly) yes

(DaveL) not directly, no

(DaveL) I play other important parts, such as the games design side of things

(DaveL) interface design

(DaveL) and so on

(Squirrelly) so, you have photoshop knowledge?

(DaveL) I've used it quite a bit, yeah

(Squirrelly) i know 11 year olds that have "used it quite a bit", but it doesn't mean they have knowledge of the program itself

(Squirrelly) so i recommend learning how to model/animate/texture/program/map/engineer audio

(Squirrelly) it's the way it is all going

(DaveL) I make e-commerce websites and backend management systems for multi million dollar sites

(DaveL) AOL, Telegraph, etc.

(DaveL) I'm not attempting to get into the games industry though

(DaveL) essentially, ND is a hobby of mine, something fun to do

(DaveL) something I enjoy doing, with a great end result

(DaveL) or, I hope it'll be great, hehe

(DaveL) you've taken offense to my recommendation of you learning how to skin

(Squirrelly) well, yes. to be honest, i don't see you in a posistion to recommend what i should or shouldn't be doing

(Squirrelly) there are a boat load of game devs that just produce environment textures

(Squirrelly) that are IN the industry

(DaveL) I recommend that based on my own dev heh

(DaveL) urm oops, wrong pm

(Squirrelly) sort of... fitting

(Squirrelly) to the conversation

(DaveL) are you talking to me just to start an arguement?

(Squirrelly) no, not at all

(DaveL) ok, we'll end it here then

(DaveL) good day to you sir.

Display More

squirls you should learn to skin you know that. its not that hard and someone with your talent should. I think i remember haveing a convo about that myself with you the first time we met lol

also

Quote from Hourences

I wonder how the guy found any team members at all if hes such an idiot.Does he do anything himself ? mapping, coding, graphics, whatever or just "leading" ?

Perhaps we should write a "how to pick the right mod" guide so new people dont end up with things like these anymore

I was wondering that also. maybe they are friends with him? No idea on that but it seems very strange for a whole bunch of good artists to just all of a sudden come together and work on some random project. It seems very strange to meh.

Huh, this guy sounds like an idiot. They've progressed with maps, models and such, they should show them instead of faking in-game screenshots, this is just unacceptable for me. I could and i do understand why people do this, but this is what really made me angry:

"The alpha screenshots in these magazine scans are clear evidence of just how far along Nuclear Dawn is in development."

What a bullshit. At one point i was thinking of trying to apply for this mod as a level designer but i really wont even look at them anymore, other than on a negative side. Are the other designers, as level designers, modelers and such aware of the faking of these screenshots? I believe so, i wouldn't accept it wherever i'd work when talking about modding.

I see two things by reading that mirc log:

For someone with no game development skill, why is he leading the team? IMHO a mod team leader should be skilled in at least one major aspect of the game development process

Given that he's not skilled in game development, if ND takes off, he's probably going to use the assets to brag about and use when talking down other games/mods, even though he didn't actually make any of it.

I'm waiting for him to find this thread and whine about it on the ND forums. Either that or call our mommies.

Quote from User Err0r

For someone with no game development skill, why is he leading the team? IMHO a mod team leader should be skilled in at least one major aspect of the game development process.

I couldnt agree more, it's one of the things on my list of "mods I'll never join". And every point on that list comes from past experience. Some more points are;

-No programmers

-No animators

I'd say thats the three most important things when it comes to checking out a mod... If the leader is just a leader and doesnt do anything else you should really stay far away because at certain points some team members will get fed up with the whining from a person who doesnt do anything himself...

I don't have a major issue with people with no experience leading mod teams. Hell, a lot of professional teams are led by people who have no direct experience of making games themselves -- guys graduate from QA and other departments to end up leading projects (whether you agree with this or not, it happens). However, I dislike seeing people who have little idea about the nitty-gritty bashing other mod teams and individuals when they haven't done anything themselves. Worse still, individuals talking down to others about their particular field when that individual's own experience relating to that field is purely anecdotal / indirect is just laughable.

Having knowledge of one or several areas of development always comes in handy, though. I wouldn't disagree with that at all.