[WIP] CS/DE_(tbd)

Hello, I finally decided to register here hoping this website will help me improve my mapping skills. I don't really want to turn this into a presentation thread but I'd just like to say I really apreciate a lot of the work created by this community and that's one of the reasons that made me join. Anyways, I should start the actual post now.

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This might look familiar, I made another version of this map quite some time ago, about 6 - 7 months ago as an entry for the GameBanana Winter Wonderland Mapping contest, which I won, somehow.

Click here to go to its WorkShop page.

I have decided to give it another shot because I was not totally happy with the outcome, the fact that it was a 40 days contest made me rush it and I eventually ended up droping a lot of ideas. And so, to start off I gave it a new - hotter - look, I tend to get bored of snowy maps fast not sure if I'm the only one but, yeah.

I've been essentially retexturing and adding some more cover to the outside area. I've also been adding some new props from the recently added CS_Militia which I think fit nicely the theme.

Here's two more pictures.

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I haven't touched the 3DSkybox too much, just a placeholder really, while I don't want to mess with it yet.

More screenshots here.

So, I'd like to get some feedback on this, could be about lighting, props positioning, or anything really that would help the map to get better. If you're feeling generous and would like to test the actual map I wouldn't mind providing the current .bsp file. Also, looking for name suggestions, and gametype as well, Bomb/defusal and/or Hostage rescue are both viable, but I think Hostage rescue is more fitting.

Also, and this is bugging me a lot, bots are f'd up since the older version and they don't want to learn the map. They like standing on their spawn area and do nothing, it's obviously related to THIS. I've been trying to understand what is causing this issue, it happens in all the areas of the map and I've never had something similar happening to any other map. I suspect it's the complex geometry of the displacements but man... I'd like to know what it could be for sure and if possible how to fix it. Remaking navigation file from scratch is still an option but I would like to know if there's a way around it because it's so time consuming.

Thanks in advance and say hello!

Quote from Puddy

Looks like a good start with a very distinct theme.

My gut tells me that it won't be much of a Bomb/Defusal map if you haven't designed the map with that game mode in mind from the very start. I recommend balancing it for CS or Demolition since those two game modes allow for more "liberal" layouts (especially demolition maps tend to have very open layouts).

Yeah I agree with what you mentioned, even tho the original one was actually projected to be Bomb/Defusal from the begining. The house is still pretty big inside, and the two bombsites were separated between 3 floors, basement to 2nd floor with both bombsites being equally viable and away from each other - so, not really a super linear map as it might look. I've also been working on adding new routes outside, and trying to make the tram viable for the team spawning outside.

Anyway, I apreciate your suggestion, and I'll definetely make a CS version. I might release a Bomb/Defusal version too, but that will be low priority as I believe Hostage/Rescue maps accept these kind of more open layouts better.

Thanks Puddy!

Quote from Puddy

Just to clarify; by open I don't mean long sightlines. What I mean is that this map's routes seem very interconnected and quick to navigate between, unlike regular bomb defusal maps where they are separated and connected only via very specific choke points.

Indeed, I witnessed this when I played it in a 24 players server, the very first version was a bit messy. Terrorists spawning outside were doomed. The map really lacked cover and CTs would just bash almost every round but in a very sloppy way no real fixed chocke points. The thing is I intended CTs to wait inside the house for Ts to come in, which never really happened because CTs would just go on the roof areas and garage and snipe down Ts from a privileged position (higher ground). That was when I decided to add a few more cover and the truck on Beta 2. Which kind of helped but I feel more could have been done.

Thanks again Puddy.

Quote from FMPONE

Looking forward to giving it a shot, I would say to do a mapcore PT but I can never manage to make those these days

Keep us informed

Thanks for the support man!

Quote from 2d-chris

Arh looks cool, my first impressions where of Militia in terms of setting and gameplay, defo reads like a CS map from the screenshots.

Looking at the screenshots, seems like you could use some defined routes with a more cover from firing positions in the house, a back flank and stuff, but maybe I just can't see them in the screenshots

Well, I have placed some rocks and a bit more cover, but I should probably give players more hints of where to go, creating sort of an intuitive path like L4D2 does with all it's techniques such as lighting but instead use high props for cover. The only issue here would be creating them without making them look way out of place.

I've been thinking about making sort of another small building for storage separated from the house, which would provide more cover and I think I might actually do it.

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Visually, the time of day is a bit bland really, and it's very brown, the terrain is also a bit blobby which usually doesnt happen in real life unless it's eroded by water, so adding more fences or an elevation drop would make more sense.

I know, the lighting is a bit too standard, I thought about giving it like an afternoon-ish sunset light ambience, but I think people get saturated of those visuals quickly so I picked up this one just because it's more - default - and Counter-Strike-ish.

I sometimes find myself in a very unconfortable position where I can't simply randomize stuff... And I seem to have kind of an obcession with simetry which is REALLY annoying and makes me quit most of my big projects. If it were TF2 it might have worked but in a game like this you just can't go all symetrical. But I'll try my best to make it less regular and make it look more natural.

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Everything also feels a little compressed and squashed together, I would space things out a little to define each area more, this happens all the time when your area is simply too open.

Gonna try to separate the surrounding areas to make them look like they serve a purpose, for instance a small garden area, work on sort of a playground since there's 2 kids bedrooms and I'll figure out something else to give the area a bit more character.

You clearly know these things very well, this is just right what I was looking for when I registered and I hope to be able to improve this map and hopefully take a lesson from it. Thanks chris and everyone else again.

Would like to share some progress with you people.

So, I've created this little shed, I think it fits very nicely to this area and will provide some much needed cover on the outside area. This will make the path around the house much more viable. Also started adding some minor details here and there specially on the backyard. Still working on it tho.

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Those black marks on the floor were caused by the overlay I added (rock path) but should be easy to sort it out.

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The shed along with all its details was applied using func_instance, so I was able to rotate it 45º just to make it look more random/natural/something.

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Backyard now has this little elevation, small rock hill which will hopefully contribute positively for gameplay and visuals.

Sorry for the big post, wanted to save the work of clicking the links. Any thoughts?

Another update, getting really close to final!

Since the last update I've been essencially reworking the inside areas, they all look much better, and I've added a bit more detail to the outside, added a little extra structure to the map, the property sign to welcome the terrorists (SS #2). And I've also added an American flag to the house (SS #1), as I'll use the US Seal Team Six for CT skins. Other small details were added. Other then that I've reworked the optimization, a lot of the props now have fading, and the area portal windows fade at distance too.

And here's a few more screenshots.

#1

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#3

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Got a friend working on the radar and loading screen image as well, relase coming soon!

Major stuff to do left is the 3DSkybox and play testing.

Quote from Spherix

Those skilift thingies look huge in comparison to the house ;o

I'd say they're average size compared to others I've seen, I've searched plenty of them to try and get a decent scale that would look convincing and functional, I ended up making these ones from brushwork. They're still missing the roller connecting them to the wire tho. I think they'll do, but thanks for letting me know your opinion.

These are some of the best examples I wanted to recreate, but ended up with something totally diferent as I needed something to let the players stand on, since you can't sit.

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It has been quite some time since I last updated this. Well here it is, I've come back to this project for the 3rd time, and most likely last. I had a very big break from mapping in general but my good friend Will2k got me back on it, with wise advice and great help, and finally got me started with the 3D Skybox. He provided me with the textures as well. He also tweaked the fog to match the map better and I was very happy with the result so with that I was finally able to come up with a decent 3D Skybox and several other improvements to gameplay and visuals, and some optimization as well.

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Hope you like it, feel free to leave any suggestions, I can't wait to get this out of my hands. >.>

Quote from text_fish

Excuse me if this has been covered already, but why do the ski-lifts look like ghosts?

About that, well, I needed to make it so they seem to fade away in distance, as simply making them disapear in the horizon would be really a lot more weird. I've adjusted them so they kinda fade as naturally as it can be done while not being game breaking. It's just a trade-off really to not make them disapear, I'd rather have them slowly fading out, but you have to be still reasonably far away to notice them WHILE playing and since there's also fog, it kinda works together with it.