Posts by pB.

The texture issue as well as some bugs have been fixed. The shadows have also been brightened which has improved visibility in parts of the map.

Thanks for all the feedback!

Quote from Quotingmc

I see this in several places and is a super easy fix. A lot of the stone textures don't align over different brushes. A clear example is the picture of the round tower in the imgur album.

Thanks, this will be fixed!

Just done the new screens. There are a few now in the original post but here is the imgur link to the full album.

The post-playtesting update is here.

Major changes:

• Widened connectors. This seemed to be a real issue when playtesting so I have widened a lot of areas.
• Enlarged bombsites. These were noticeably tight when playing to I Have made them bigger.
• Better contact points. People thought the contact points at mid and A were awkward and messy so I have tidied them and simplified them.

I have done a new radar and the screens will come soon. This change is live on the workshop so you can go see for your self.

New radar image:

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/1LT84LU.jpg]

This seems like quite a lonely thread so some feedback wouldn't go amiss.

Layout

The basic layout is solid enough: A pretty standard A and B at the sides with a mid and connectors between them. I only had a quick run around but a few things were obvious.

• There are many seemingly pointless extra bits stuck onto the connectors. Take the connector near CT spawn the square bombsite (can't remember which one it was ). It didn't seem to play any purpose in the game. It may be that because as I was the only person, I couldn't test strats etc to see if it would be fun/useful in a game but it doesn't really connect anywhere with anywhere else.
• Ladders < Ramps/stairs. This is just personal preference but there did seem to be ladders where it would have been good to put ramps. You can fall off ladders and not shoot accurately on the either. They are also just a pain when lots of people try to use them at the same time.

Theme

...

Everything else

Not very much to say as this is a WIP so the only thing likely to stay the same is the layout. One thing which was a good and bad idea was the water. It could be fun in a not comp game but wouldn't be suited to CS. CS isn't about hiding in glitchy places, its about shooting people in tactical ways. Therefore I would recommend that you remove the ability to hide in the water as it isn't competitive.

It is a great map and despite the few flaws could be very fun to play.

GLHF

Thanks, it all works perfectly

Quote from Fnuggi

You can use ent_messages_draw 1 to visualize all entity input/output.

Thanks!

Quote from leplubodeslapin

Have you tried OnEndTouchAll ?

Valve's Wiki says :

Quote from Klems

What if someone stay in the spawn indefinitely?

Lapin is right tho. Alternatively you can use a game_zone_player with a logic_timer and logic_compare to count the number of players in a zone. I have an irrational distrust of triggers, this is probably unnecessary.

Thanks a lot. I've gone with Klems' idea as I have already tried the triggers. Is there any way to debug the logic (debug messages etc.) as I haven't got it working yet and these would be a great help?

So in my map how would I trigger a teleport when all players have left spawn?

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/fQFRTNa.png]

So when all the players are outside of the orange box, everyone gets teleported.

I hope this makes sense Thanks!

-pB.

Just had a complete lighting overhaul. The map is now a lot brighter and easier to read. I have also fixed the cubemaps and the shadows from the birds looking like enemies :D.

Thanks again for all the feedback

Quote from Bevielis

After reading text_fish's post, I can't but feel guilty about not giving feedback. I played the map on yesterday's (June 23) playtest.

Detailing: the detailing of the map is good enough to be visually appealing to me personally, but it has some major flaws that are bringing it down.

- There is lack of an unifying theme - your map seems to be a castle theme also implementing the usual Inferno/Italy-like village architecture. While having several contrasting themes that go together well should work, neither of them do, because many of your areas seem to not fully commit to either of them. The result is this seemingly random architecture, that does not feel real or aesthetic, because the themes in the map are mixed, you should fully commit to a certain theme in specific areas.

- Geometry was too blocky, underdetailed - don't get me wrong, there was plenty of well detailed architecture in your map, but many areas felt underdetailed and blocky and I think you can easily figure out which ones need more work just by looking at them.

- Too much geometry and prop clutter - when there are so many brushes and props in one place it becomes very distracting and most of all, absolutely uncomfortable walking around the map. This not only contributes to the detailing, but also the layout - there simply isn't too much space.

- Lighting could be improved - strong lighting makes everything look good, but there is a certain point where it becomes a burden to your eyes. I would suggest using a more desaturated shade of orange and a less strong light for the direct sunlight, and a stronger, less dark ambient light.

Layout: I enjoyed the layout, it was genuinely intresting and I played it as I would in competitive, I take it as a sign that a map is good enough to be taken seriously. However this is the place where you can really improve stuff.

- Awkward angles - on one round I was headshotted from CT before I even managed to leave T spawn, just putting that out there so you understand how much cleaning up has to be done. Your map has a lot of verticality to it, which automatically makes the angles uncomfortable for the attacking side, best example of this would be the T entrance to A stairs - you can just rush and mop down terrorists going to A; or T entrance to B - on one round I managed to spray down 3 people just because they were all in this tight, downward hallway. I don't think you need to delete the vertical elements, just make sure that they are compensated for the side that gets the penalty of using it. However most of all I disliked how the prop and brush clutter was obstructing vision like I mentioned before. Defending angles on A or B was not very enjoyable because of this.

- Tight pathways, chokepoints - I'm sure a lot of people would agree that your map features some annoyingly small paths, like that of upper B or T entrance to B. Also, both bombsites felt EXTREMELY tight, there were so many props/brushes in B and A it felt like an angle nightmare, I would suggest widening both bombsites and moving the stuff out of the way to make hiding and defending more intuitive.

That's all I can think of. I assume you wanted detailed feedback on how to improve, not praise, so here you go. Don't get discouraged by my wall of text, I think your map once improved will be great,

Display More

Wow.

Where should I start?

Detailing

I am aware that aspects of the map are underdeveloped. These areas will be built upon as this map is still a WIP. As to the underlying theme, I was going fro the Inferno/Italy look but with surrounding a central castle. I will work on making B and the connector area less different from the rest of the map as the construction theme doesn't seem to work with the sleepy village theme.

The prop clutter and tightness go hand in hand. I am working to simplify the sites as well as expand them.

The lighting is an issue that has been mentioned by multiple people. I am working on making the indoor lighting a similar level to the indoor lighting which will hopefully make the map less burdening fro the eyes.

Layout

The awkward angles were caused by the sudden change in height. Where the raised area on the T side of A was is now a grassy bank leading up to the site which will hopefully make cross-hair placement easier. This goes for other areas of the map as well.

The tight choke-points and paths are also being widened. I feel that I over cluttered them as well with props. This, as well as making them narrower also led to people getting stuck whilst moving around the map.

Thank you so much for you feedback. It would be impossible to improve a map without people like you.

-pB.

Quote from text_fish

Just from looking at the overview radar, my initial feedback would be that your paths/routes seem very long and narrow, which will have the effect upon the player of making them feel like they don't have much freedom of movement, and may make timings feel longer than they actually are. You should also label the bombsites and spawns -- I can adequately guess where each team spawns, but I shouldn't have to, and knowing which site is A and B would make it easier for me to provide gameplay feedback if I had any.

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I have added icons to the radar as well as contact points. Playtesting last night came to the same conclusion as you about the width of the routes. I have started widening them and simplifying other aspects of the map.

Another issue that was obvious from playtesting was the lighting. I didn't realise how dark some areas of the map were as I forgot that I had fiddles with my graphics card colour options, thus making everything extremely bright for me. I have began to tone down the outside lighting and to increase indoor lighting levels.

The bombsites are also under change. The wall separating B from the mid connector has been removed, opening up the bombsite, thus making it less awkward. The contact point of A has also been changed from a drop and a ladder to a grassy bank leading up to the site.

There have also been other changes fixing bugs and exploits such as being able to escape over the outside wall at B as well as clipping on props and detailed brush work.

Thanks for all the feedback. It is invaluable in making this a better map.

-pB.

This thread is so lonely

Update!

The bombsites being the wrong way round are now fixed!

Quote from LapnLook

I always intended to make an open skybox for this very reason, but I planned for it to be like half as high as it will be this way. Also: is there a way to make props smaller? Cause it would be useful to put more pinetrees and stuff in the background.

You can't change the size of models very easily, however there are a few tree models at the right size for the skybox I seem to recall

Quote from LapnLook

I'M QUOTING YOU ANYWAY GODDAMNIT
well, I guess then I will just make the skybox high af (pun not intended), I don't know if that would be good for optimization though

I've got an open skybox on my map (de_muros) and that doesn't seem to cause a big problem. It does mean that the map isn't very optimised but you wouldn't notice it unless it was running on a potato. There are more benefits to an open skybox than a closed one (cool nades etc.) in my experience

Quote from LapnLook

Question: if a pinetree models top goes outside the skybox on top will it cause a compile error or cut off the top of the tree?

In my experience it will just cut off the top of the tree. I think you only get a compile error if the origin of the model is out of the map, but don't quote me on that one!

Quote from Muffin

You should instead get a playtest here: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/topic/17116-ma…playtesting-40/

As well as that, there is also the competition playtesting which you can sign up for here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1WeQ3s…NAdZic/viewform

Quote from LapnLook

Can I apply for this and say that the map will be in a ready state by that time? Just to reserve a timeslot

As to that, I'm not sure, but as long as your map is ready by the slot, I'm sure there won't be a problem.

Just uploaded another update. A few lighting fixes etc. and some bug fixes.

This is a really nice map in terms of layout, however there is one small thing which got in the way whilst playing. The vine/creeper things on the walls sometimes got in the way whilst peeking. I think the map would benefit from cleaner, sharper corners.

Apart from that, a really great map!