Fistful of Frags released!

    Thanks for the suggestions m8nkey. We released beta 1.1 yesterday with many new things, including faster revolver/bow/smith carbine and fists too. Sprint only works in a realistic way, running while strafing isn't

    I know the saloon doors are a bit hard to use, however making it automatic could make then look weird. I think the spring I'm use there could be less tight, also try to use fists or a weapon to make it easier.

    And yes, desperados spawn is some sort of noob trap, but most people find the way HDR version in general is dark, I think I should try to compile the map with other env_light values.

    New beta:

    http://www.fistful-of-frags.com/view.php?indn=10

    the jumping part in the new version is really bad -- you can only make one jump before waiting about 5 or more seconds to regen to jump again. it's too much of a wait. my suggestion is to decrease jump stamina to what it was before, AND increase the stamina bar a bit so you can jump at least 3 times before running out (without spurs). this really keeps me from playing the mod :\

    it bums me out that i actually should not play games but instead be busy with college so i cant test it atm but the changes sound promissing! looking forward to giving it another shot.

    Quote from Sentura

    the jumping part in the new version is really bad -- you can only make one jump before waiting about 5 or more seconds to regen to jump again. it's too much of a wait. my suggestion is to decrease jump stamina to what it was before, AND increase the stamina bar a bit so you can jump at least 3 times before running out (without spurs). this really keeps me from playing the mod :\

    Can I ask you why do you need to jump 3 times in 5 seconds? I suppose it'd be occasional, however there is no a big need IMO.

    I understand it can be annoying sometimes, but I find even more annoying those people jumping like frogs.

    Quote from R_Yell

    Can I ask you why do you need to jump 3 times in 5 seconds? I suppose it'd be occasional, however there is no a big need IMO.

    I understand it can be annoying sometimes, but I find even more annoying those people jumping like frogs.

    for example, in (i think) el paso, desperados have a balcony they can jump out of. however, with the current build, itll take me at least 10 seconds to get over the railing due to poor level design and/or because of the jump limit. this is just an example, i remember many more similar cases.

    also, i feel you're not listening enough to your players (given your VERY critical views) and i think you need to change that attitude as well. it's a beta, try it out. if anything bad happens, you can always change it back. don't say no just because that's your personal opinion, because your choices affect other people.

    Well, it's clear you never has been in my position. Every player has suggestions and its own view of how should be played the game. Sometimes you have to isolate from those opinions and do what you think is right according with the gameplay idea you have.

    The example you cite is actually a level design issue, nothing to do with the jump. It'll be fixed as soon as possible. That spawn was made with the old "super-jump" in mind, clearly an error. However it's still passable if you crouch and jump, not so complicated. And are there "many more" issues like that? I only know that one.

    I also have trouble with the jumping. It seems like half the time I just can't even jump. On el paso, even trying to jump on a porch that is only like 10 inches tall requires you sit there and try 3 or 4 times before you can actually jump up there. It's just really annoying and gets me killed all the time because I get stuck trying to jump up something that I could just as easily should be able to walk over.

    Quote from R_Yell

    Well, it's clear you never has been in my position. Every player has suggestions and its own view of how should be played the game. Sometimes you have to isolate from those opinions and do what you think is right according with the gameplay idea you have. The example you cite is actually a level design issue, nothing to do with the jump. It'll be fixed as soon as possible. That spawn was made with the old "super-jump" in mind, clearly an error. However it's still passable if you crouch and jump, not so complicated. And are there "many more" issues like that? I only know that one.

    i have been in similar positions to what you are in now, thank you very much. it is clear to me that you dont know how to handle those situations, however. now if you'd actually listen you've just had 3 people stating the same thing, 2 of whom came up with different examples. i'm not trying to be an ass about this, but if you dont listen, you'll lose alot of players/community. an old saying goes, "win the discussion or learn something from it" -- i think you ought to heed that. either way, arrogance will get you nowhere.

    Well, the fact I'm discussing with you those issues should be an indicative I'm not that arrogant, because if I was probably I wouldn't be here (as many other devs do, btw). However that doesn't mean I'm going to do what other people want every time. Many players asked for a deathmatch mode and I won't offer one even if the game dies quickly because lack of players. The idea behind FoF simply has nothing to with DM, my interest is in that idea and the fact people plays the game isn't the main thing in this project. I mean this isn't a commercial game, I don't have to worry about having players as if my life depended on it.

    Regarding the jump, if there are map issues with the actual system they will be fixed. However there will be serious restrictions and that won't change. There are games where you can't even jump, the fact is games have restrictions that you must overcome, if not they wouldn't be games.

    if you're not gonna bother about players or gameplay, why make the mod in the first place? if you're going to announce a mod for people to play only to ruin their experience, you might as well just have kept it to yourself. for now, you've convinced me to give up your mod; i can't be bothered discussing this anymore.

    Quote

    if you're not gonna bother about players or gameplay

    It's interesting how do you jump to such conclusions... The fact is your logic abandoned this thread a few messages ago. If you stopped playing because there was a minor issue in a spawn... it was all said.

    I find really odd that some players seem to think their word is pretty much pure wisdom that devs have to use if they want to improve the game, like there wasn't just other options. I'm sure that people asked Insurgency devs to add crosshairs like a million times (this is just an example). And I'm sure those persons had their reasons to ask, but Insurgency is was designed for other purposes.

    Sentura, it sounds like this jumping restriction is really frustrating you, but maybe you are overreacting a little? You got an opinion about it, R_Yell got a different one, you can discuss the matter but eventually you won't come to an agreement and since R_Yell is the designer of the MOD, he will have the last word. I think designers should always listen to the players feedback and no matter if R_Yell is right or not - I don't think he ignored your feedback or put it down in an arrogant manner, so why get personal?

    killertomato i am asking you kindly to be quiet instead of insulting people and not adding anything constructive. your post was uncalled for.

    also it seems like i am being misunderstood here, what i said was that i couldn't be bothered playing a game because it's too frustrating. the reason i said the things about the jumping thing is that it feels awkward and out of place. you've had several people asking you the same thing, so it's not just me; yet you continue to just pin it on me or insult me? sorry, but i cannot be bothered with discussing anything with a person that acts like that. let me be clear again that i quit playing that mod because i dislike the jumping thing as it is now, not because of this discussion as you may think. i've had my say, however, so i can only hope for you to change it in a future version.

    perhaps i am of a different opinion than r_yell when i say that i play games for entertainment, not for innovation or realism. perhaps i may just have downloaded and played the wrong mod for me, however much i like the western theme.

    i am not going to continue this discussion so please do not respond to this post. thank you.

    misunderstood? you were just being an asshole to someone who has taken the effort to create something that we can enjoy. for free. not to mention the hypocritical crap about being insulting and nonconstructive.

    oh, and:

    i am not going to continue this discussion so please do not respond to this post. thank you.

    Well, I wish all we took this discussion in a more mature attitude. Probably I wasn't very receptive to Sentura's suggestions (or simply didn' took the time to explain him why I was doing that) and that made him more critical over me, I'm sorry for that. I enjoy talking here about gameplay because everybody has a designer perspective, and I appreciate that. I also don't feel my opinion is better than the rest, but I know this game better than anybody and if I'm able to explain myself probably all would be more clearer.

    FoF was designed with some RPG ideas in mind, that why exists notoriety and equipment selection. Player has limitations to overcome. Jump was supposed to be one, because there exist a stamina upgrade which let you increase that "ability". However the initial beta was very permissive in that aspect. Jump takes much more stamina after beta 1.1, so there are a lot of chances of having not enough stamina to jump depending how do you use it. That's another part of the game, as having no ammo or having to reload a weapon. Well, that's the general idea, but there exist certain issues with spawn areas, such limitations never should exist in spawn areas because that's annoying in a game where you respawn a lot of times, and it will be fixed of course.

    I also think my idea about the jump could work without taking so much stamina, however the initial value was clearly insufficient for my purposes. It could be revised.

    • [*:2cbplnkn]no 1.3 full installer for the client[*:2cbplnkn]no 1.0-1.2 patch[*:2cbplnkn]no 1.0-1.3 patch

    please check your mirrors. the release seems a bit rushed since there is a lack of working mirrors for older/full versions.

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