Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from MrBaracuda

    objectives that can be pushed in both directions

    Play ins_baghdad. Its currently the only map with the 'Battle' gametype (which allows pushing in both directions).

    Quote from Steppenwolf

    Play ins_baghdad. Its currently the only map with the 'Battle' gametype (which allows pushing in both directions).

    Yea and that is probably one of the better maps along with Sinjar; unfortunately I cannot really play it as INS because I get a huge FPS drop when I play on that side

    Does anyone have a link to a stats page where you can see how many ppl play which mod?

    Quote from KungFuSquirrel

    I'm actually pretty convinced that the Black Mesa setting is the Macbeth of mods.

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks. (Okay, so it's Hamlet, but I can't remember anything appropriate from Macbeth)

    Quote from Steppenwolf

    He doesn't know what it means to manage dozens of people and create something that is really complex in the making.

    Because a mod that took 5 years to produce anything really needs to lecture other people about proper project management....

    Quote from Fletch

    Because a mod that took 5 years to produce anything really needs to lecture other people about proper project management....

    garry has never managed a big team with G-Mod... thats a fact. What exactly is your argument, other than starting some flame shit with INSUX LOL?

    btw, fletch on mods:

    "Just because Insurgency took 5 years to release anything doesn't mean you have to be bitte ..."

    "Nothing impresses industry professionals more than dragging a mod out to DNF-like levels of delays." @ ND

    you're so fucking whiny on this stuff not to mention you edited my damn post ugh you fail pretty badly overall duder

    Well first off, I never called INS shitty in any way shape or form. I think it looks nice and has some definite room for improvement in terms of gameplay (good base is there).

    I took offense to them taking potshots at Garry just because he's not drinking their Kool Aid.

    Quote from Fletch

    Well first off, I never called INS shitty in any way shape or form. I think it looks nice and has some definite room for improvement in terms of gameplay (good base is there).I took offense to them taking potshots at Garry just because he's not drinking their Kool Aid.

    Well you fairly cut and dry did before you edited your post and mine, but Step just stated a fact (no clue where you get this Kool-Aid nonsense from, whose Kool-Aid exactly?) and you started some catty shit, but again you've been doing it for a while now as I pointed out with the post history stuff

    First off, let's have a little history lesson: Jim Jones had a cult called The Peoples Temple in a quaint little place called Jonestown. He had them all drink poisoned Kool Aid at gun point. Hence the phrase "Don't drink the Kool Aid" being introduced into popular culture in reference to not agreeing with a position just because everybody else does. Then again, I have the sneaking suspicion you're about 15, so this is probably over your head.

    I never disagreed with Step's comment that Garry doesn't lead a big mod team. I just thought it was fucking hilarious to come up with that position coming from Insurgency. I guess you just don't appreciate my sense of humor. My utmost fake apologies.

    I agree that we should have released a lot earlier... but I'm also pretty confident we have a solid game now and with lots of tweaking it can be even better.

    The main problem that I see with the mod community is that devs are too ambitious. If I ever lead a mod I'll define the goals (and estimated deadlines) even before starting the actual work. I'd be realistic. Ok I came up with lots of cool ideas but can I implement them quickly ? Am I even capable of implementing them ?

    Mods should be developed in pre-defined stages. Let's say, for the first 2 months we would work on getting a simple working internal alpha (as bugless as possible and with bots included if possible). No problem if we use CS weapons at this stage, but we REALLY need a solid alpha to test our stuff on and eventualy grow from there.

    Another golden rule would be to implement simpler features first. Why would I focus on a complex player class system with lots of custumizable shit if I can't even get the basic alpha with CS weapons done ? If something is broken fix it as soon as possible, instead of doing workarounds and moving on to new stuff.

    I'd also take many other variables in account. How talented and hard working is my team ? Are they capable of creating what I envisioned ? Do I really need a bigger team ? Big teams can be a nightmare to manage and the wrong newcomers can destroy a mod atmosphere completely.

    Another thing that I really hate about the mod community is overhyping. Media coverage is good for you ego but it might distract you from the actual work process. I'm not saying media coverage is bad but you have to be reasonable. Media coverage should be a result of your work and not your main goal.

    We made many mistakes with Insurgency but we also matured a lot in the proccess. I trust the INS team completely and I'm pretty sure we could start a new project from scratch and get it done in a matter of months with our built up experience.

    Quote from Minotauro

    I trust the INS team completely and I'm pretty sure we could start a new project from scratch and get it done in a matter of months with our built up experience.

    Do a cool DM mod NAU

    hmm, this thread had 1 page yesterday, and it was generally about garry. now it looks like it is about insurgensee? jeez guys can we go back to sucking garry's art hole?

    Haha, wow. You sure steered this thread into a new direction effectively since page one FMPONE. Guess I'd better go beyond my usual long posts and come up with something to suit the size of this thread.

    Having just read everything in the universe, it has become apparent to me that the "release a shit first build and then iterate quickly" strategy is no longer as effective as it was in HL1. Back then there were few expectations as far as the mod scene went, so when some that provided drastically new gameplay came out everyone jumped on them.

    Mods could also be pushed out at a fast rate then due to much simpler asset creation requirements. You could put together a map of HL1 standard in a relatively minuscule amount of time, which was more than enough to satisfy people then. It takes significantly longer to put together something of HL2 quality, which is what people will expect.

    There's also the simple fact that there're a lot of (team) multiplayer games these days, as opposed to the distinctively minimal amount of them back in the TFC/CS/DOD heyday. As such, the demand for each is less and that's why even decent ones like DOD:S struggle.

    Regardless, it's clear that INS is now out, so the whole argument on the "release early and often front" is completely redundant and not worth continuing.

    This post is looking very texty so here's a nice picture to break it up:

    [Blocked Image: http://serve.ryanjohnwilliams.com/images/insurgency.jpg]

    INS does have a good player base right now, but I'd severely advise the team against getting into too strong a sense of security. If the game isn't patched quickly and often, the player base will very rapidly dissolve, and as speculated earlier you'll find yourself in the same position as the little-known mods above.

    Bear in mind that the majority of this player base is stemmed from the huge amount of hype beforehand (hundreds of people in the IRC room before the mod was even released, for example -- they weren't there because of the gameplay) and the syndication of hype on news sites and FilePlanet. You couldn't really help but get thousands of players after that.

    This is the time to kick that "release often" strategy into gear. Pump out gameplay enhancements, get feedback on them, apply the feedback, release again. Keep doing this until you end up with a totally winning formula; don't worry too much about making dramatic changes or altering the game significantly, and definitely don't ignore player feedback and think your formula just cannot possibly not be much fun. This is basically what your DOD and your CS did, except without the several years of asset creation first.

    The biggest mistake you could do now is to not release often. If the next patch comes after all the people who downloaded it and didn't like the gameplay much have put the mod out of their mind, they'll most likely never try it again. And without their word of mouth, you're righteously fucked.

    Just please, please don't let your current player stats go to your head. I understand it's exciting and it's wonderful you have so many players, but it doesn't make you invincible. Tribes: Vengeance was released to a large fanfare, had thousands of enthusiastic fans from Tribes 1 and Tribes 2 waiting to play it, and was very well built from a technical perspective.

    However, because its gameplay just wasn't that appealing the player numbers very rapidly went from many thousands, to hundreds, to an average of 80 after a few months. A retail game, released by Vivendi, with two generations of community plus new players. Despite it being a beautiful game with few bugs, due to the gameplay not really hitting the right note its players literally melted away. To put this into perspective, Tribes 2 which came out in 2001 to this very day averages around 400 players, and Tribes 1 which came out in 1998 still has more than Tribes: Vengeance (2004).

    The same story can be said of a number of games, although with Tribes it holds a particular relevance due to it also being a primarily multiplayer game.

    Quote

    Having just read everything in the universe, it has become apparent to me that the "release a shit first build and then iterate quickly" strategy is no longer as effective as it was in HL1. Back then there were few expectations as far as the mod scene went, so when some that provided drastically new gameplay came out everyone jumped on them.

    Well, many things have changed since then, you have a good point saying that there is a much bigger multiplayer FPS offer now, and also must be remarked that the whole HL1 mod scene is still competing against HL2. But the main point is still the same and that never'll change: if you make an original game and people like it, they'll play no matter what's the art quality and how much custom content it has.

    Back in the CS days (I played beta 2), there was nothing like CS. Now let's take a look, err Insurgency, I could play DOD:S if I wanted a lighter version of it, I could play RO if I like a similar gameplay but WWII themed, I could play AA if I wanted similar or more realism. Well, the offer is much bigger now, even taking in consideration they aren't exactly the same thing, every game has its own personality, but nothing compared to CS and rest of multiplayer stuff by that time.

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