RO had me hooked after 5 minutes, that game is realistic and fun in my opinion. Maybe the polishing in it counts.INS had me tearing hair out after 5 minutes.
What version of RO? I hope the very first (of the mod) or else your point is flawed.
Quote from SteppenwolfWhat version of RO? I hope the very first (of the mod) or else your point is flawed.
Why would his point be flawed? I had more fun with crappier versions of mods. INS is basically what cs once was, on source and in Iraq. Just that it's not new and pretty boring after a while. At least for me 
You guys compare a game (RO) that was released years ago and has seen lots of polishing and development since then with something that isnt even a month old and still in betas. Thats pretty lame from you if you ask me.
I would have expect better in a developer/modding community like mapcore.
RO was completely new for me with the retail version I bought, so I cannot say much to that. But it doesn't matter if it's totally polished or not, INS is just lacking atmosphere, immersion and depth in my opinion. That and the maps are rather boring, gameplay wise. I know it's an early version, but nothing comes to mind that will change that much. I loved the in-game music option, but you disabled it in 1.1, for whatever reason!? I even added a couple songs I had and it felt like playing a mod taking place in Iraq.
One thing that bugs me about the lack of immersion is not the poor voice acting, but that you decided to use English voice commands for the insurgents and the complete lack of useful voice commands for other classes than the commander.
Even dod had voice commands in the respective native language in the first beta(s), or not? And it adds a lot and works both in dod and RO. That and that there is hardly any ambient sound on the maps (or is that just me!? All I remember is a single radio on almaden near objective B).
Quote from SteppenwolfYou guys compare a game (RO) that was released years ago and has seen lots of polishing and development since then with something that isnt even a month old and still in betas. Thats pretty lame from you if you ask me.I would have expect better in a developer/modding community like mapcore.
i never tried RO so i cant compare. however you should know when doing a mod and making graphics count more than gameplay you get something like this. i'd rather see a mod with good gameplay come out with maybe 2 maps in beta, and excellent gameplay, then build on that for later betas. ins did 8-10 good looking maps, and it seems that in the process they forgot that this needs to be fun and not just a showcase. i do not doubt that this mod is excellent portfolio work, but it just doesnt cut it as far as gameplay goes.
Soundscapes are there they just seem to be very very quiet for some reason.
Quote from SteppenwolfYou guys compare a game (RO) that was released years ago and has seen lots of polishing and development since then with something that isnt even a month old and still in betas. Thats pretty lame from you if you ask me.
Both the early versions and the retail.
I agree with Sentura and a heck of a lot of other people seem to be saying the same thing. The visuals for INS are the best I've seen in a Source mod however the gameplay...just isnt fun. Sure its realistic and if you want a realism game thats fine, it sort of does that (I wont go into how its not realistic and how you can never get realism on a PC game) but realism 99% of the time is not fun.
RO is more involving because its got lots to it, yes its been in development longer and that helps, but how long has INS been in dev? 4 years or something? Feels like it if it hasn't.
A few things to make it appeal to the masses more, but then again a realism game is never for the masses and you will never have it be amazingly popular,
Do something about the damage, whoever spots who first wins. Usually the person with lowest ping.
Maps need lots of optimisation, I can run Source Games at high detail level no problem. Even Fortress-Forever with 16 people running around throwing MIRV's and Concs seems amazingly slick to some of the places in the maps. Making the maps run smooth makes everything more enjoyable.
Better class selection, it looks ropey as fuck, basic VGUI menu compared to rest of display.
Maps need more routes and diversification, admittedly I havn't played it much but all the maps feel the same and they all become the same yellow sandbox in my eyes. Nightmaps, evening and dawn maps asap. Even if its just a lighting change, anything to break the monotomy.
The voice commands make me lol everytime they are shouted, fix them or lose them they ruin it.
I would have expect better in a developer/modding community like mapcore.
Regardless of who we are, where we are and what we do, the same problems are cropping up in all the forums.
Edit: I now expect you to defend the mod to the hilt as after all, you are on the dev team.
Maps need more routes and diversification, admittedly I havn't played it much but all the maps feel the same and they all become the same yellow sandbox in my eyes. Nightmaps, evening and dawn maps asap. Even if its just a lighting change, anything to break the monotomy.
I never heard this kind of thing about DoD and those maps were much more similiar to one another than anything in INS 
Edit: I now expect you to defend the mod to the hilt as after all, you are on the dev team.
Now you're being ridiculous about it. Of course they defend the game, they know, no offense here, a shit load more about it than you do. Not to mention they care alot more than you. To you its yet another game, and maybe you spent alot of time explaining your opinion, maybe you're just spouting.
Out of the thousands of people that have played the game you're just yet another person who can pass perhaps overly harsh judgement without consequence and maybe thats honesty but its pretty shitty to read if you are a mapper not a coder responsible for gameplay or vice versa. Its nothing to you, just a few words. It means more to someone who spent months on making all those maps you think are monotonous etc
And thats 100% fine, you have an objective opinion and its coming from a totally legitimate place. It sours me on modding, though I must say. Why bother slaving away all that effort? Its hardly worth it. People are not capable of appreciating the hard work plain and simple. If they see flaws, they can't help themselves totally ignoring all the positives and focusing on that.
Quote from FMPONENow you're being ridiculous about it. Of course they defend the game, they know, no offense here, a shit load more about it than you do. Not to mention they care alot more than you.
You're just yet another person who can pass perhaps overly harsh judgement without consequence. Its nothing to you, just a few words. It means more to someone who spent months on making all those maps you think are monotonous etc
That may have been harsh, I expect the same people to say stuff like that about HaJ when we get it out but instead of being like the mules I've tried to offer suggestions on why I feel it doesnt work and what can be done to improve it.
The DoD maps may be similar (I personally don't think they are at all, visually perhaps but each map has a different gameplay style to it) and they work because the gameplay suits it. Its fast, furious action that suits roundabout maps.
The INS maps all seem to be fairly linear maps, with perhaps some sideroutes that are all closed up and whichever one is the best route, everyone goes for and ignores the rest. The maps don't feel too balanced, its even harder to have balance when pretty much all the weapons kill in one shot. It may not be realistic to have them do lower damage, but I think it would help.
After all the US side has body armour that currently does fuck all.
Guys, get used to people criticising your work if it's not very fun. Otherwise, you're going to find it crippling once you work on retail games that get hit with dozens of professional reviews and thousands of amateur reviews.
From what I can see the criticism in this thread is very honest but also quite tactfully put; it certainly isn't insulting, and I'd encourage those on the development teem to take heed of what's being said rather than pick on the individual for actually saying it.
People can compare with other games all they like. After all, those're what they're going to play instead if INS just isn't that fun. Is that's what you'd prefer, rather than them honestly telling you what stops them from enjoying the game? Or would you prefer they spare your pride and just let the mod crumble?
That may have been harsh, I expect the same people to say stuff like that about HaJ when we get it out but instead of being like the mules I've tried to offer suggestions on why I feel it doesnt work and what can be done to improve it.
Well not that I think you're breaking new ground, but it is a better option no doubt and I'm sure appreciated.
And I'm sure they will, if theres anything I've learned from watching INS released its that as much as people say "release early, release often" and beg you to release a game, if its not perfect you'll never hear the end of it. Ever.
Thats what annoys me, more than the fact that people do see problems with the game, thats inevitable and if they provide good enough criticism very welcome (although as you said, most don't). Its the hypocrisy and retarded expectations.
I just tried another server, lowered my settings down to medium and thought, this is a bit choppy.
Turned on netgraph and ...wow.
I don't think I've had a Source game run this low, I have everything on medium, no AA, Bilinear AF, no Colour Correction, no HDR/Bloom and I'm getting 40fps at 1440*900.
40.
In an empty server.
What on earth is causing the fps hit, are all the models unoptmised or is it the maps? They don't seem to have massive stretches of open terrain, lots of 90 degree turns.
Well ginger lord i hope for you that Ham & Jam can live up to the extremely high standarts that you just set for it.
i downloaded ins and expected nothing, other than "fun" (that's the reason we play games, no?). prior to release i had only heard about ins here in mapcore. needless to say, it wasn't exactly what i'd call "fun". i doubt people who hear about the mod will react in a different way. people wont generally expect too much unless you hype your mod too much; and if you do, then it's your own damn fault. dont bullshit people and people wont bullshit you.
i dont know how long ins has been in development, but there should have been some meeting along the way where the dev team sat down and asked themselves, "how is this running? is it good or bad? what does the QA say?". i have a feeling that there has been a gap between the actual leads and coders to the level designers and testers, otherwise surely one of them must have thought, "hey guys... this isn't fun anymore - let's try a different approach".
i am sure any game company would have done that in the event of the game not having a copable fun factor, because fun is, after all, what draws you to play a game; even if it does mean resketching a whole level, redoing a part of code, etc. if you read 'raising the bar' you'd see that valve did the same thing, and i am sure that many other companies wouldn't hesistate with doing the same thing.
Could see that one coming. :roll:
Anyway, had a quick butchers through your models and whilst some of the models are lod'ed (?) theres a fair few which arnt. Stuff like 900 poly couches and chairs, 1000 odd polie minaret (theres even one thats nearly 3000), 4000 odd poly mosque tops that have no LoD levels. Some of the high poly vehicles like the Humvee are well done, 6k down to 1.5k but the tanks seem to have been ignored with 2-3k bases and 3k odd turrets with no LoD.
The view models are also pretty high poly, some nearly hitting 10k which is pretty high but still usable so thats probably not too much of a problem, the textures are fairly reasonable, one or two have more than one texture but again nothing major.
Quite alot of the map props have 1024 maps when 512 would probably be good enough.
I've still not got around to playing INS, but thought I'd lighten the tone in here a little by posting a review of it that I read on Eurogamer this morning. No score, but its a mostly positive review 
Sentura we know now that ins is not your cup of tea. You can stop talking out of your ass. What is fun for you is no fun for other people and the other way around.
There is enough people who enjoy the game and over time it only can get better. Instead of coming up with constructive critism some here come to the thread with a kind of a attitude problem towards ins. I expect this from stupid gamer kiddies who have idea but not from people who know themself how much work goes in such a complex project.
Could see that one coming. :roll:
I thought it was a fair point lol
Regardless of wether Step gets emotional, you better believe when HaJ gets released you'll have to deal with this same routine and it'll probably suck as much for you if not more than INS duderz
Finished editing your post yet? Thats gotta be at least the 10th time its changed 
Finished editing your post yet? Thats gotta be at least the 10th time its changed
Yeah, you can respond now or dodge the question entirely I guess ;3
trying not to sound like a total asshole is very difficult for me I have to pose everything in a very deliberate manner *edits this post a million times*
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