Level designer vs Environment designer

I dont know, but I miss it =(

I was under the impression that an environment designer was pretty much a prop modeller.

I don't think I have heard the term environment "designer" as much as environment "artist".

From my understanding, level designers work at building the geometry of an environment for the purposes of gameplay, and planning that gameplay as well. The environment artist would use their artistic ability to bring the level to life with assets in the form of textures and models. These assets are made available to the level designer to place around the environment, which is sometimes dictated by conceptual art of the location.

It seems that the division of labor is made more because each person only has enough time to attend to their own separate tasks. Designing sequences of gameplay and the space required for it would end up taking most of a level designer's time, so it is necessary to relegate the remaining tasks of creating a game to specialists like an environment, texture, or concept artist.

I haven't been at this as long as Ferret, but game development is so complicated now that it seems a necessity.

Recruitment managers don't know shit about shit when it comes to what you'd be best suited for. They make money off placing you in a position so they're going to tell you whatever they need to.

You should try to apply directly to the companies you're interested in because the game developers themselves actually know what skills are required for the job. Companies will never ever just work through a recruiter -- they'll post the job on Gamasutra and Creativeheads as well.

Level designers create the game mechanics, puzzles, layout, flow, and put it all together into what we call the Map. Environment Artist's role is to create the art such as prop models and work with level designers to help implement the art within the maps. Every company is different too.

Quote from von*ferret

I dont know, but I miss it =(

quoted for truth

at my new job here at ioi for this first time i am being stripped from the art side of level design and i sure miss it

i can totally see how this improves the "FUN/GAMEPLAY" output of a level though ... and yet i really REALLY miss making things look good ...

The industry doesnt even know the exact difference itself either. At one company a level designer only scripts, at another he still does everything. The term "level designer" lost its meaning in the past few years. If you tell someone from the industry that youre a level designer he still has no clue as to what exactly you do since its so dependent per company.

The situation is so bad that since 2 years Im putting Level Designer/Environment artist on my resume so people can figure it out themselves what it is Im doing.....

I also totally dont think its a neccessity to split the two. The rising complexity has nothing to do with it.

The level designer can still design both the visuals and the gameplay if some modellers and texture artists provide him with assets. Basically like the old day. Level designers had help from texture artists back then too, yet still did everything else themselves.

I think a bunch of managers figured this would be more efficient and implemented the system without taking the artistic things into account. If a single task is fragmentated into too many different people and even entire departments then thats bad for the consistency of the world and the workflow of the designers (they have to run back and forth between two groups all the time, or wait for the other one to finish)

I would have tought a level designer is someone creating a level and getting the assets from someone else (artist, modeler) where a envoirement artist does more of these things himself and so control the feeling/settings of a level more.

But hey that was my view on the difference

Quote from Hourences

If a single task is fragmentated into too many different people and even entire departments then thats bad for the consistency of the world and the workflow of the designers (they have to run back and forth between two groups all the time, or wait for the other one to finish)

Amen.

Quote from Patrick_H

Amen.

I agree!

of course the more work you have today has to be spreaded onto a team, but cutting the workflow into too many pieces might and will be counterproductive.

though i think everybody who has played a game and has basic experience in level creation, can design a layout/gameplay for a game level. :X

I would be careful listening to advise by someone who comes up with new positions on the spot. To my knowledge there are "level designers" and "environment artists" (Patrick explained the differences between the two vey well me thinks).

Either that guy is on the bleeding edge of game development/is well informed about new, emerging jobs in studios or he doesn't know what he's talking about. Or you mis phrased him

Anyway - I think you should ask yourself what you want to do and where your skills are - Art or Design. Following demand blindly isn't an advice I would give unless chances to be hired in a specific job field are so slim that sending out applications would most likely be a waste of time...and I can't really see that for either of the two.

I imagine it depends what game they're working on for this distinction to be applicable. For typical First Person Shooters their seems to be little difference in the two titles because the person who designs the layout, game flow and enemy placement, etc. is also assumed to script, build, texture and light the same space by himself. There’s some debate about how long this will last or if it’s already gone (certainly has for more open-ended FPS’s), but lets not start that.

But a Level Designer and Environment Designer in the context of a PC RPG like Oblivion or Neverwinter Nights or an open-ended game like Grand Theft Auto? It’s not hard to make the distinction between the person making the monster encounters, scripted sequences and quest designs with the one making the layout itself.

But I'd go for the advice posted here to apply to the companies directly, they know what they want and aren't going to pass over the oppotunity to offer you a different position. e.g. I applied for an Artist position but was ultimately offered a Scripting one.

If that is what he said he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I've only ever come across three divisions in design; level, sound and systems. Most places I've worked simply classify everyone as a designer then delegate tasks based on personal skillsets and prior experience.

If you're going to work as an environment artist don't expect to have nearly much creative input in terms of level layout as you would as a designer though.

at ubisoft i was a Level-Artist ( even more weird )

leveldesigner: does the scripting, ai, gameplay , layout

level-artist: dresses up the map with assets and textures, zone's , portals, debug memory usages etc

at my next job ( if all goes well) i would be a environment artist however the job discription is similair or exactly the same as Level-artist.

so yeh like a few already said it totally depends on the company but one question you should always ask yourself when you start;

do i spend the most time fiddling with entities, kismet etc or am tweaking the art constantly, collecting ref and spend the most time making the map look good.

Quote from IR

leveldesigner: does the scripting, ai, gameplay , layout level-artist: dresses up the map with assets and textures, zone's , portals, debug memory usages etc

at my next job ( if all goes well) i would be a environment artist however the job discription is similair or exactly the same as Level-artist.

We seperate strictly between Level-Designer and Environment Artist, the later only touches the editor to test his assets (created in a 3D modeling package) in the engine.

Everything else is done by the Level-Design team whose members don't differentiate by their titles (except for Junior, Senior etc. of course heh ) but in their strengths and tasks. If you are good at making the levels pretty and you enjoy it - you will get to do that a lot. If fiddling with flowgraphs or AI is your thing then the majority of your tasks will reflect this.

To throw in another job position I want to mention that we do have one or two "technical designers" who support the other designers with scripting entities or assistance in setting up more complex stuff in flowgraph He's the connection between designers and coders.

If you want to strip it down to one word it can be said like this:

Level Designer: Gameplay

Environment Artist: Looks

One thing however is certain, all companies have more or less different interpretations of these roles.

It also comes down to the tools a lot. Previously at IO the level gameplay was set up using an internal scripting language called SDL. This required the level designers to either be able to script themselfs or have dedicated level scripters working with them.

These days gameplay is set up using a flowgraph-like tool, which has completely removed the position of level scripter and also removed the requirement for level designers to know any kind of scripting.

So even within the same company, it can change a lot.

Furthermore it is differentiated depending on the team. On my team I am the only pure level designer, but we are not exactly like any other IO team.

And ohh Warby, there should be good chances that you also get to do some art stuff at some point.

I think the root of the separation of level designer and environment artist is that a 'level designer' is able to get his/her tools for free from an SDK. Where is an environment artist(models, textures) wants to get started he/she needs industry standard software to build a foundation on.

That's just what I think.

Quote from Hourences

I think a bunch of managers figured this would be more efficient and implemented the system without taking the artistic things into account. If a single task is fragmentated into too many different people and even entire departments then thats bad for the consistency of the world and the workflow of the designers (they have to run back and forth between two groups all the time, or wait for the other one to finish)

That scares me the most is the inconsistencies in creating the level.