Quote from hessiwhile talking about demos and warezing:valve did a really great job while offering the "free" weekends. this was the best idea seen for a while. anybody had plenty of time to check out the game. probably a complete weekend which means 48 hours of play. getting a full game for a that long time will make you pick the right decision (buy or not buy)
in my eyes this is the best way to promote a game and keep warezing low. there would be no excuse for "oh but didnt have the money" or "there is no demo"
greetings
hessi
Except that these free weekends always come when the game have been out on Steam for way to long. If they had them at the release + 1 week, it would be a great "demo", but it isn't. Demos should come at the same time, or before the game. That's something that I think causes a lot of priacy because people want to test a game before they buy it.
Quote from ReNoFair play if that is true for you, but you can't just make a statement like that and assume it applies for us all. Working for a small company, I can say that we are very much dependant on revenue from sales.
I think this is a fair point, but I don't agree with it. I don't pirate games, as though they are fairly expensive, they are still very much within the price bracket that makes them affordable to average people. Photoshop or 3dsmax? I don't think so. $3000 or something around that mark means that these aren't products aimed at enthusiasts, and it is enthusiasts that make mods. Your point that it is through the piracy of these products that our industry is what it is today is completely true, but you can't take that argument and say it also means pirating games is ok - that just isn't a logical step. I'm against pirating games but I don't mind so much when a software developer has their product used by people who were never potential customers anyway.
I havent said that downloading games is fine because they are prolly made or influenced with illegal software. I am just saying that there are a lot of people out there who never download a thing and start crying for an admin when someone mentions the word "warez" while at the same time download and play like 5 mods/games that are made with the warez they object.
Point is, if you really dont like warez you should never download a mod/custom content map.
I am merely pointing out the hypocrism of some + the importance/impact of illegal software on our industry.
Even if you work for a small company you might not see a lot (if any) of the sale money return to you so...The only real benefit good sales have for you as a dev is that the company wont go bankrupt....doesnt sound right to me, it should benefit me as a dev because I made the game.
I as a dev should not have want to have a high number of sales only because I am affraid I might end up without a job. I should have that motivation because I want to earn the money for the all the work I performed.
Edit: To better explain my last point:
Most the times releasing a game can only have two types of effects on a developer.
-The Negative Effect: The company goes broke and you loose your job. This obviously has a negative impact on you as a person.
-The Neutral Effect: Your game does ok/well and you get to keep your job but beside a possible small pay raise nothing changes at all for you personally. Once project is out and you just start working on the next one just like you did on the previous one.
Whats lacking is a positive effect. The money to reward you for making the publisher earn a shitload of money from your creation. Thats not right imo. Thats why I said I cant really be bothered if people buy my game or download it. As long as it becomes succesfull its fine by me. I want people to like what I made, one way or another because I am not getting any positive effects of it anyway.
Quote from st0lveExcept that these free weekends always come when the game have been out on Steam for way to long. If they had them at the release + 1 week, it would be a great "demo", but it isn't. Demos should come at the same time, or before the game. That's something that I think causes a lot of priacy because people want to test a game before they buy it.
as you should know steam games are never a final version. there are always updates and patches and new levels / missions / add ons. people should know that.
on the other hand: i purchased hl2 silver. i didnt even know when dod:s is going to be released but i knew i will like it because it is DOD. if you don't know how the game feels: dont buy it and wait for its release. if you see no demo around (or free weekend) check out at a friend.
btw i have to add that those games on steam are really "nice price"'d. i mean a full multiplayergamepackage with counter-strike, hl2dm and dod for like 25$... couldnt be such a waste?!
free weekends for the win!
Ever since I got a job I haven't pirated a single game, not even as a full demo with the bold claim I’ll buy the real thing after I’ve completed it 100% and found that I enjoyed it and might still enjoy it. No really, I will.
However, game-creation software is just too expensive to justify me going out and buying it for individual use. And it’s not intended for individual use, which is why it’s so expensive. It’s intended for professional use by people that know what they’re doing. Because embarrasing things can happen if you use pirated software at a professional level, can't they Climax?
Of course to know what you’ve doing you need to have used the package before on a individual basis. So – in a round about way – I imagine the people who make this software probably expect it to be pirated.
At least that's my twisted logic.
Quote from HourencesEven if you work for a small company you might not see a lot (if any) of the sale money return to you so...The only real benefit good sales have for you as a dev is that the company wont go bankrupt....doesnt sound right to me, it should benefit me as a dev because I made the game. I as a dev should not have want to have a high number of sales only because I am affraid I might end up without a job. I should have that motivation because I want to earn the money for the all the work I performed.
Aaah, now I see your point - I was taking your comment that the developers aren't seeing a return on the sales to mean the development company, rather than the singular developers. In this case you're definately correct - I don't think very many places at all give any sort of royalties system to the actual developers these days, beyond a bit of a bonus on a successful game perhaps. Its not a nice situation but, well, we gotta deal with it really. That said, I think losing your job because the company goes bankrupt is a good enough incentive to want the game to sell well rather than find "success" through piracy.
hessi, I never expected a demo to be from the final game. like when I was I kid, demos was released WAY before the finished game hit the stores. You played the demo 1000s times and got really stoked and bought the game the second it hit the stores.
and I'm not talking free weeks\demos as just a Valve thing, everyone should atleast release a demo at the same time or before they release the final game.
I was wondering, since I haven't owned a console since the SNES, is there much piracy with consoles? Or there a lot less because you need to mess around with the console itself?
Quote from TaylorOf course to know what you’ve doing you need to have used the package before on a individual basis. So – in a round about way – I imagine the people who make this software probably expect it to be pirated.At least that's my twisted logic.
True, but these days you can get learning/student/mod versions for free.
Quote from st0lvehessi, I never expected a demo to be from the final game. like when I was I kid, demos was released WAY before the finished game hit the stores. You played the demo 1000s times and got really stoked and bought the game the second it hit the stores.and I'm not talking free weeks\demos as just a Valve thing, everyone should atleast release a demo at the same time or before they release the final game.
i agree in general but there might be games that don't need that. i mean: if a game is played by 100.000s of people it cant be that bad.
I think some of us were pointing out the irony of vivi galavanting around talking about getting a job, and then in the same breath talking about pirating both CoH and bia3.
sorry if i missunderstood anything in the CoH thread. I do have a personal connection to the devs so I guess I care.
I just think that around with our mix of people in and not in the industry, it's probably not a good idea to spread the idea that it's okay to pirate games however/wherever/whenever. I agree the mod industry is somewhat built on warez, however I don't like the idea of people coming here and misinterpretting what's being said on this site as further permission to pirate whatever they want. I don't think anyone intends to say that, it's just how some people intepret things.
anyway, an interesting discussion that could go on for a while, but I'll just get out now cause i got work to do.
Sorry to start such a topic but at the time I was just kidding. Since I havn't had a job in a long time I have been pretty much broke for a long time. The last game that I tought would be fun to buy was bf2 . Once i bought that using some of my last bits of money and got it home, i shortly realized it was a bad decision. Since then, I have only had enough money to pay for gas to get me from my house to my gf's house.
I have to say when new games come out and i really want to play them but can't because I don't have any money it really sucks. Then i read on forums about how much fun that game is and how cool certain parts were and all that talk just makes me want to play it even more. At that point the only thing i can do is dl the game to play it or wait till i get a job............
but now that I have a job I wont need to dl games anymore 
I've never downloaded games before, but I've had pirated copies (first ever copy of HL1 was pirated) and then I've replaced those with genuine purchases. These days I don't pirate anything, I only ever download mods or the odd song from a band and then it's usually on their website and legit. Stuff like OS's and paint aps I never needed to worry about, as I got them second hand from people.
D3 is a shining beacon of morality. A great example to us all. Too bad he's a goth and/or metalhead.
I've bought everygame I ever pirated (Half-life, Homeworld, Quake 3 and stuff like from those years, 98-99). And these days I dont pirate at all.
Though some people are strange. I know someone who has a pirated CSS yet he goes to cafes to play it with other people and has probably spent enough money to buy it several times over :roll:
Quote from PolarisD3 is a shining beacon of morality. A great example to us all. Too bad he's a goth and/or metalhead.
What was the point of posting that crap you spanner? This isn't EOT....
Quote from PolarisI was wondering, since I haven't owned a console since the SNES, is there much piracy with consoles? Or there a lot less because you need to mess around with the console itself?
It is very much rampant. PS2 and Xbox were quite big, I am not sure about the 360.
There has been a time I pirated no game.
But yeah I got some illegal games, most of them have/had no demo, and I only finished a few of them/played them longer then a few hours/days,
and in most cases I would not have bought them anyway if I didn't had acces to the pirated version, so no real loss for the mayority of the developers behind it.
For the ones I did like there are 3 scenario's.
- I go buy the game because I enjoyed it that much and the illegal version might not have sertain things that the retail has.
- I will probebly buy the sequel (unless the demo tells me otherwise 
)
- Sometimes I just get lazy and nothing happens.
Why I downloaded the games?
- To lazy to go to the store.
- Store probebly would not have it for another week while the dowload was right in front of me 
- Just to check out the hype.
A service like Steam greatly decreases the chance I download a game for that platform illigaly. (since it handles most of the reasons why I downloaded a illegal version anyway)
I got a bit of music but no real loss for the owners either, before that I never bought music either and well I mostly have them because I like the songs but I can't remeber the last time I listened to them, its months ago I just put up my favorite radio station that also sends over the internet now
(http://www.radiocontact.be/nl)
So my conclusion, Pirated stuf is bad, but in alot of cases the product would not have been bought anyway the nr1 reason being the lack of fund. So if you make quality you have a bigger chance for legal purshases
Sid Meier's Pirates! rules this genre.
I miss good pirating games 
Quote from MojoIt is very much rampant. PS2 and Xbox were quite big, I am not sure about the 360.
when i had the original playstation we bought a chip that pluged into the back of the console, it came with a spring to hold the button which sensed the cd door was open down. all we had to do was put in a real game, wait a second, and swap in a game copied with at cd writer, we had about 50 games, or $1000 of games :roll:
Music- I had done maybe like 2 songs a long time ago, but 99.9% of music I have is legal, meaning I bought it or borrowed it from someone else who bought it.
Games- most of the time I buy, but I havent been playing too many games outside of the Valve realm. If I do have a game through warez or whatever its because I couldnt get it otherwise (I wanted to play Red Alert but i lost the cd key so ...) or I get it from a friend ... you guys can probably guess.
Movies- to me its dumb to download movies so I rent em or buy a ticket to them.
Software- thats where I fall. The only reason I have a legal copy of PS CS2 is because I luckily got an education license from a friend's dad. But I think everyone here pretty much starts out that way.
I'm in kinda the same boat as vivi. No money etc etc. 'cept the part about having a job now
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