Israel vs. Palestine

Quote from st0lve

Ok, so now this shit is on.First the Israelies cut their power and watersupply. And now they invade Gaza?

http://%7boption%7d

Is it the right thing to invade to get out 1 man?

Is it right to cut the power and watersupply of 1000s of people?

Is it right to capture the Palestine goverment? (they didn't kidnap the soldier)

Will there ever be something that we can resemble as peace in the ME?

Answer please.

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I think it would be hypocrite to judge either side, but if i was going to judge one this time, it would be the palestinians. They started it again

Somewhere an icky place in my brain almost thinks that this shit was engineered by right-wing Christian fundamentalists over here so as to usher in their supposed rapture. Boy are they going to be pissed when it doesn't happen.

Quote from Pericolos0

It's a religious nightmare.

Israel is run by secular Jews, and religion is generally just a tool to recruit suicide bombers and public relations for the Palestinian groups.

The conflict is driven more by a sort of tribalism than religion.

Quote from st0lve

So you count all as one? If your friends stole a car, you are to go to jail with him? You cannot blame an entire country for the actions of few.

Isnt that exactly what Palestinians are doing by targeting all of Israel?

Quote from st0lve

I wouldn't say capturing a military personal as everyone. It's worse to fire missiles that are 50-50 of hitting civilians insted of military.

In the past 2 weeks Palestinians have fired hundreds of missiles into Israeli cities.

In response btw, to a palestinian landmine that killed 9 palestinians on a beach.

Quote from RD

a palestinian landmine that killed 9 palestinians on a beach.

Depends on who you ask. But it was probably an Israeli missile that killed them. A missile intended for the Palestinian rocket launching sites ironically enough.

Quote from st0lve

It's a religions and geographical conflict.Tribalism (if there is such a thing) isn't really the matter.

You mean territorial conflict right? (unless the mountains and deserts have some issues with each other too :roll:)

Nationality, religion, ethnicity and other things that can be used to identify people is what makes up the tribes. So yes there is such a thing as Tribalism. And in this case it has more to do with nationalism and racial identity than religion.

This shit has been going on for 50 years - something's gotta give.

As per all the tribalism/regionalism stuff:

For both Israel and Palestine, it is impossible to divide national identity and religious identity. To almost everybody over there they are the exact same thing. God and country are one. It's great for religion. It's horrible for diplomatic politics and international relations. It's not that either side wants more space than the other. They want the entire space to themselves because they view it as their religious right and duty to drive off anybody else from that land. Now, just in case that situation couldn't become worse, you're got Israel's stated international policy: a head for an eye. Most countries stick with "an eye for an eye" as military doctorine. You invade us, we hit you with missles. You blow up our ship, we blow up your aircraft hanger. But Israel's stated policy is that if you kill a settler, they'll throw a missle into the neighborhood of the suicide bomber. You attack a solider, they'll demolish a town. It isn't a system of retaliation based upon proportional response. They chose this policy out of desperation, because when you're surrounded on all sides by countries that are much bigger than you and want you dead, you've got to resort to extremes. Plus, they've got nukes. The overall idea being that their neighbor's know they have itchy trigger fingers and the capability to wipe out every living being in the gulf. It keeps them off the lawn. Problem is, for most extremist Palestinians, they don't care if they die or if everybody int ehri country dies. Again, god and country are one. If you honestly believe with every fiber of your being that if you start a holy war and it gets everyboyd killed, you and all of your friends are going to be realxing in heaven and your enemies won't, death stops being a disincentive.

So yeah, this shit is going to go on for a long time. It's not going to be stopped by bringing rational parties to the negotiating table. Even if you can find such leaders over there, nobody will be able to win over the hearts and minds of the people that will keep strapping bombs to their bodies (save the second comming of Jesus and Mohammad going on a buddy tour).

It's a prime example for the reason for the separation of church and state.

Quote from Polaris

Depends on who you ask. But it was probably an Israeli missile that killed them. A missile intended for the Palestinian rocket launching sites ironically enough.

There was an investigation and it was most probably a landmine planted by palestinians to stop israeli commandos from entering by beach, which they did the week before. Also the shrapnel and crater was investigated and concluded to be from a landmine. At least thats what my media told me

Muh, the media here in Canada is generally pro-Palestinian, or atleast where I live.

Quote from st0lve

I'm getting really pissed now, this soldier is just an excuse to take back parts of Gaza, or crushing Palestine to the ground.Talk about fair, for 1 soldier you have to kill 10+ kids, who haven't done shit.

Ofcourse this isnt just about the soldier but also the hundreds of missiles that are landing on Israeli cities each week, fired from Gaza.

Quote from st0lve

I bet that they don't even care about that soldier, they just want to remove Hamas with power. Which won't work because the more they fuck up Palestine, the more votes Hamas will get.

Nothing wrong with getting rid of Hamas. Its an organisation that intentionally targets civilians: a terrorist organisation.