Wow...

    What's the big deal? The kids never buy the games anyway.

    EDIT: the parents are the ones who actually pay for the shit. If they ant to restrict minors from being able to buy the M rated games - that's fine with me. America has enough demented youth as it is.

    I buy my own games as well - but the law is in place to more or less protect children. Here in the us if you are under 18 you are a child, a minor - no questions asked. Even if you consider yourself an adult - the government does not.

    Most stores already don't sell M games to kids under 17 anyway - so they aren't seeing much change if you ask me. I really don't see the problem.

    Quote from Pericolos0

    its a problem of principle. Family values politician are just using this for a scapegoat of the real problems. The ratings arent absolute numbers. Oblivion is rated mature now because ratings have become alot stricter than they used to be. Is there any reason a 16 year old shouldnt be playing oblivion? A 16 year old playing oblivion is ILLEGAL now, i think this is a big issue. Land of the free...

    I think one of us is misunderstanding the law. I read that it would be illegal for minors to buy the games - not to play them. If minors can't play M games, I'm with you... parents should be able to decide that, not the government.

    However, if minors just can't buy the games - than I think that's for the best.

    on another note, Oblivion is rated M for good reason - I'm sure you don;t have to think to hard to see why.

    Quote from mabufo

    I buy my own games as well - but the law is in place to more or less protect children. Here in the us if you are under 18 you are a child, a minor - no questions asked. Even if you consider yourself an adult - the government does not. Most stores already don't sell M games to kids under 17 anyway - so they aren't seeing much change if you ask me. I really don't see the problem.

    The problem is this law bypasses and ignores the ESRB in favor of their own qualifications for what is considered inappropriate. You'll undoubtedly find T-rated games being restricted as well.

    In the grand scheme, just saying "well, these kids shouldn't be buying the games anyway, so it's not a problem" doesn't help things. The biggest issue with all of this isn't that kids can or can't buy M rated games, it's that no other entertainment medium (save for porn) is under anything other than a voluntary ratings system - MPAA ratings, for example. By allowing the government to step in and do the job the retailers are doing already (no better or worse than they are for movies, music, books, and what have you), you're giving them the leverage to not treat games as an equal medium.

    Re: Oblivion, they had plenty of M-rated gore content in it already; that game was at best a low M from release, regardless of any hoopla over boobies.

    This will be appealed to the Federal District Court (probably Northern Oklahoma District) by the ESA. My guess is they'll file papers within the next two weeks. Given the fact that the langugage goes farther than most of the laws that have already been overturned by similar courts, the District Court judge will probably overturn it on constitutional grounds. It will then probably be appealed to the 10th Circuit by the state of Oklahoma. This is where it gets sticky. The 10th Circuit is one of the most conservative courts in the nation in regard to "social" issues. It covers Utah, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and New Mexico. The 10th Circuit does, however, tend to rule on the side of corporations in cases that involve free enterprise. So this is really a toss up. My best intuition would be that the 10 Circuit would quickly deny the appeal without having to go through another trial and make a ruling. When in doubt, don't set legal precedent.

    See, two semesters of Constitutional Law pay off for something.

    As for games as porn: I say let the ESRB do it's work. These laws and lawsuits and probably good in the long run because its going to force the ESRB to take a hard look at restructuring it's ratings and process for rating games, jsut like the MPAA and RIAA have had to do in the last 20 years. Personally, I alawys enjoyed the PEGI system better because it makes finer distinctions between a 12 year old, a 16 year old, and an 18+ adult. I think a 15 or 16 year old can handle a game like Brothers in Arms, where as maybe they shouldn't be playing Grand Theft Auto without asking their parents.

    Quote from Fletch

    I think a 15 or 16 year old can handle a game like Brothers in Arms, where as maybe they shouldn't be playing Grand Theft Auto without asking their parents.

    Winner.

    Quote from Fletch

    I think a 15 or 16 year old can handle a game like Brothers in Arms, where as maybe they shouldn't be playing Grand Theft Auto without asking their parents.

    Lips. Ass. Connection made.

    In all seriousness I hate this shit. I hate it. It's the worst kind of pandering to the worst kinds of people: irresponsible "safety moms" and "nascar dads" (excuse me a moment, bile just rose in my throat from writing those down). Anyhow, regardless of who buys these games there'll always be some large contingent of irresponsible, ignorant parents who don't realize that if you buy a game named after a criminal act that you might very well be buying something you're church group would disagree with.

    Quote from KoKo5oVaR

    [Blocked Image: http://screenshots.downseek.com/9309/screenshot.gif]I was playing that when i was 11 :/

    Who the hell gives a stripper $100 for a bikini dance? Seriously. THIS GAME GIVES PLAYERS UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT!

    Quote from The Postman

    Anyhow, regardless of who buys these games there'll always be some large contingent of irresponsible, ignorant parents who don't realize that if you buy a game named after a criminal act that you might very well be buying something you're church group would disagree with.

    That is very true.

    I really don't know what to think of the whole situation. The only thing I am sure of is that M games should not be sold to children under 17. That's how it's been forever. That's how it should stay. My question now is: if retailers and whatnot are already doing a good job of this... then why does the government even need to intervene at all? Seems like a waste of tax money.

    I'm 16, I live in the US... I go to see what movies I want to and buy the things I want. I go to pubs and bars once and a while, not to drink but to play some pool, hangout, and eat.

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