An Inconvenient Truth

People who earn medals, awards, honours, prizes and knightships are still rarely recognized by the masses. Ask someone to name a Nobel laureate other than Einstein.

Quote from Polaris

People who earn medals, awards, honours, prizes and knightships are still rarely recognized by the masses. Ask someone to name a Nobel laureate other than Einstein.

Jimmy Carter

I never said never, i said rarely

Quote from Skjalg

First off, I apologise if you think i implied that you were an idiot, I didnt, I just implied that you dont know much about this subject.When it comes to blame; I blame you, your friends, and your society.

You can't go saying that all those reasons are an excuse for polluting, its nothing more than reasons period.

But I'll give you that, too some degree it isn't fair to put you side by side with a non-industry country. But take a look at norway, in comparison to how many people, our ratio for polluting is way less than yours.

Even after the Kyotodeal you guys havent done jack shit (at least not much) to reduce your polluting, norway on the other hand has taken CO2 and SO4 polluting down by several percent, while actually increasing the size of our industry.

And your whole attitude of this actually, again, proves my point. You seem totally oblivious to the problem and choose to ignore because its just the way it is over there. Thats wrong!

Oh and, I've just come home from a Chemistry exam where this was a huge part of it (30%). I blamed the US there too

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I seem totally oblivious? You are the one not choosing to consider the reasons I have put before you. Making a comparison between the US and Norway is nothing short of nonsensical. Let me prove my point: Norway has a population of 4,610,820 people - The US has a population of 298,444,215 people. Somehow it's still a wonder that America produces more pollution than most other countries. I would think the sheer amount of people in America would produce significantly more waste, than Norway's 4.6 million.

EDIT: What I'm saying is that the reason America, Japan, and China - and other largely populated countries are large polluters is because we have significantly more people, and more industry - than smaller countries like Norway, who take pride in not polluting. It doesn't seem fair to compare the two (or any other similar country)

Population isn't even the biggest factor. Politics is by far, the biggest reason for pollution here in the states. No one can agree on any sort of plan to fix things. Capitalism is a double edged sword in more ways than one. The people involved in industry don't want to change because they will lose money - and the people in governement can't force to do it, becuase The american congress is so deadlocked that no one can ever get anywhere with hot button issues like this. Me personally, I'm all for reducing pollution - and that's great, but I can't stop it by myself. I can ride my bike all I want, and I do - but people have to commute to get to work, people have to get to where they're going - and unfortunately, in America public transportation isn't as widely used as it should be - so people drive their cars. The situation is again, different - and that's what you don't seem to understand.

You have to understand that America works differently than your country. It may not be for the best but that's how it is.

It seems to me you guys are feeding off of misinformation(especially our European friends) - that every American person is an inconsiderate slob and doesn't care about anybody. That's simply not true.

Quote from Polaris

Gore didn't invent the net cdxx. He just coined the term "information systems highway" when he tried to get all the schools hooked up to the net. The internet evolved from a U.S. military program known as DARPA.Or were you being sarcastic? I can't seem to be able tell when people do that anymore

sarcastic. the net sucks for getting that across. i thought it was halarious when that whole story hit so I couldn't resist the mention of it.

Quote from mabufo

I seem totally oblivious? You are the one not choosing to consider the reasons I have put before you. Making a comparison between the US and Norway is nothing short of nonsensical. Let me prove my point: Norway has a population of 4,610,820 people - The US has a population of 298,444,215 people. Somehow it's still a wonder that America produces more pollution than most other countries. I would think the sheer amount of people in America would produce significantly more waste, than Norway's 4.6 million. EDIT: What I'm saying is that the reason America, Japan, and China - and other largely populated countries are large polluters is because we have significantly more people, and more industry - than smaller countries like Norway, who take pride in not polluting. It doesn't seem fair to compare the two (or any other similar country)

Population isn't even the biggest factor. Politics is by far, the biggest reason for pollution here in the states. No one can agree on any sort of plan to fix things. Capitalism is a double edged sword in more ways than one. The people involved in industry don't want to change because they will lose money - and the people in governement can't force to do it, becuase The american congress is so deadlocked that no one can ever get anywhere with hot button issues like this. Me personally, I'm all for reducing pollution - and that's great, but I can't stop it by myself. I can ride my bike all I want, and I do - but people have to commute to get to work, people have to get to where they're going - and unfortunately, in America public transportation isn't as widely used as it should be - so people drive their cars. The situation is again, different - and that's what you don't seem to understand.

You have to understand that America works differently than your country. It may not be for the best but that's how it is.

It seems to me you guys are feeding off of misinformation(especially our European friends) - that every American person is an inconsiderate slob and doesn't care about anybody. That's simply not true.

Ofcourse thats not true, its generalization and its bad blah blah, but it's still mostly true

Yes your situation is different, and again, thats not an excuse! THATS THE PROBLEM! You are absolutely right about the capitalism is a double edged sword, but leaning back in your chair and saying that doesn't really help anyone. Go fix it

Oh and, you're right, I still dont get your argument about you guys polluting more because you're more people. Thats just stupid. If anything, you should pollute less. (% per person, please, thats what I ment about ratio)

Quote from Skjalg

I still dont get your argument about you guys polluting more because you're more people. Thats just stupid. If anything, you should pollute less.

Please explain

Just your curious about your rationale.

It all depends on what your definition of pollution is and what your measuring stick is.

In total volume, America leads in greenhouse gas emissions.

Per capita, Australia leads in greenhouse gas emissions.

In both total volume and per capita, America leads in solid waste.

However, Australia has signed the Kyoto Accord and is implementing it. America (read: Bush) did not sign Kyoto and is reversing previous environmental protections.

Moral of the story: oxygen bubbles and tin foil hats for everybody!

I'm always so dismayed when i see 'hippy' types trying to affect change by demonstrations, picketing, and 'awareness' messages. The latter being the category of this movie in my estimation. As long as it's profitable to pollute for industry, it will continue to happen regardless of all public sentiment.

In economics theres a term called an 'externality.' It implies any cost of production a business has, which is a cost they do not face.

If theres a factory upriver from you, dumping tons of garbage effluent into the river every year, that factory is still creating that cost, but passing it on to the taxpayers in the town downriver who then have to pay for their waterfront to be cleaned up.

The government is supposed to be trying to force companies to pay for their externalities, otherwise their profits could actually be coming out of your tax dollars. If companies had to pay for every ton of carbon monoxide they pumped out their smoke stacks - not exorbitant rates, just what it costs to clean it up. It would motivate the market to innovate and CUT COSTS. In this case cut down on their pollution. You can't fight capitalism, greed wields too much influence, things can only change from within.

Skjalg mentioned the environment tax theyve instituted in norway, which is an absolute step in the right direction, so are any government taxes on polluting materials like gasoline that help bridge the gap between present profits and future misery. Coal should not be as cheap as it is.