The Downfall of the Netherlands

Its time for another Islamic discussion. I discovered an interesting book here in Holland called:

The Downfall of the Netherlands,

"Land of the Naive Fools".

( http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/heroes/downfall.htm )

The title immediately hooked me.It was written in 1992 by a Pakistani who came to live in Holland. After writing the book he was convicted by the dutch court because it was racist (against his own religion, Islam ofcourse).

In short the book is about the authors vision of the downfall of Holland, because we treat evrything equal. It is about racism and how almost nobody understands the word. It would be an interesting read for Kosmo and St0lve especially

If you read it (its a long read) keep in mind this was written 15years ago. Its nothing less than a prophecy. Dutch ppl here will recognise alot. Disgraceful that the man was convicted because the truth he wrote was not politically correct.

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How can a people be so advanced in their thought while being so naive at the same time? Or the other way around: how can people as smart as the drug lords of Colombia and yet be dumb enough to ignore the lives they wreck? The answer is easy: we only develop our brains in those areas where we train them. The story of the Dutch is simply the story of a people who lived so long in a neatly arranged society, and developed its kindness so far that it not only forgot what a mess looks like, but never developed the intelligence to keep itself clean. In a worst-case scenario, they will have to admit they literally gave their already small country away.

Last week our queen visited some muslims in The Hague and to avoid an embarrassing situation she didnt shake any hands, because on previous occassions muslims refused to shake hands with ppl from our government. Can you imagine meeting the president of China in China and refusing to bow, and getting angry when he bows at you? But our Queen has just happily succumbed to it.

[Blocked Image: http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1695/sokken1sv.jpg]

Guess whos feet these are? Its our queen.

Its kinda like Iran threatening to go on with its nuclear program, threatening to stop its oilsupply and we giving them hundrends of mlns of dollars. We are happy when it works, while the truth is its a disgracefully backwards mindset. Islam has a word for it, called dhimmitude.

Basically dhimmis are slaves, they get angry at others for not bowing to islamic violence and threats. There wouldnt be a problem if we just all did what the muslims wanted, and we should do our best to avoid confrontations at all costs. Remember the cartoonthread and many of you being angry at Europe for it? Its called dhimmitude.

Its especially ridiculous accusing ppl who have the courage not to bow of racism.

This quote is also very true.

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The Dutch are that much more advanced compared to the rest of the world that it would take a proportional force to make them lose their balance. And when it comes to a sense of humor: behind those neutral faces lies a sense of humor that exceeds the one of the English and Americans, which may seem dumb, because they make those funny movies, but making a movie isn't the same as living in one.

And lastly a question the author asks in his book:

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Why aren't there a proportional number of Islamic women, with or without a bikini, on the Dutch beach?

I am curious about the answers

I know you'd think that because youre not living in Europe. But how am i overreacting, i didnt write the book?

Btw you didnt answer the bikini question. I am really curious about the answers

Quote from Polaris

Bikini Question: A liberal nation will attract conservative immigrants its that simple. I live in Canada I would know.

Most of our 1 million muslims are born and bred in Holland, we have had them for decades. But that doesnt really matter. Obviously they are very conservative, but im more curious about the reason behind it. Why dont they go to the beach, they like the sun just like you and me?

Quote from Pericolos0

I live in the dreaded holland now and also think you are overreacting. It's amazing how integrated the immigrants are here when you compare to belgium. Integration is hard, but holland is doign it way better than other countries. I found that there are even muslim oriented tv programmes now on dutch television. Integration goes both ways and im happy the queen realises that.

How am i overreacting? I didnt write the book. Read a little further than the title. If integration goes both ways, than why do muslims refuse to shake hands with the queen or even the highest members of our government? If they dont give way for these ppl, do you really think they do for anything else? How do they integrate, apart from creating their own blocks where they can keep living their way and in these blocks they ask us to adapt?

I know Holland is lightyears ahead of the EU or US when it comes to immigration, but you cant possibly see how things are by walking on the street and seeing smily faces.

I dont believe the apocalypse is coming for Holland but we are moving backwards to avoid confrontations with Islam.

Quote from Polaris

RD: Are you trying to imply what I think your trying to imply?

I dunno what youre talking about, just answer the question.

Quote from Pericolos0

what beaches do you go to? The beach in your own town is always filled with immigrants. You are acting like all of those 1 million muslims wear burkas all the time.

I am talking about muslim women lying on the beach with a bikini. You know, the ones you see in the tram wearing a headscarve.

And quote me where i am talking about burkas

Quote from Pericolos0

the ones wearing a headscarve do this because they believe its right . They do it so they wouldnt be attractive to men.. why the hell would they go wear bikinis.

Actually, they do it because its culture, and a great deal of them absolutely dont do it voluntarily but are forced to by surroundings. Its Islam. I know its hard to say that word. Just for one second think deeper about the reasons why a woman would have to cover herself up when she is around men. What does that make our dutch women who dont cover up, and what does that make our men?

2 Weeks ago there was a documentary dedicated to this subject on "netwerk". It was about islamic women who are kept inside their houses here in Holland, all covered up, not allowed to even open the blinds to see the sun. I think i recognised a colleague who was forced to marry a moroccan guy and last thing i heard lays pregnant in a spanish mental hospital after fleeing Morocco.

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And most muslims really arnt that conservative, just visit the beach, not all muslims wear headscarves.. that ammount is far below 1 million. I dont really see much headscarved women in the hague either, only at the areas near the stations

Thats where they live, the neighbourhoods at the stations.....

They dont live in Scheveningen. Schevening is an oerhollands fishing village. If you take tram 6 around the Hague, thru the areas where they live, you will see most women wearing a headscarve.

I dont mean to sound like your father Peris, but you havent lived here long enough or seen enough of the Hague or our country to know much about it except very superficially from a tourists point of view. If you read the article you would see whole chapters written for you. You cant see someones believes.

I am curious do you have any muslim friends Peris? Or colleagues? Do you know any women wearing a headscarve, and if not, why do you think that is

Quote from Pericolos0

I know this happens, I know there are a lot of muslim women mistreated.. and I do not disagree with it at all. I dont really know what you are trying to say.. that the queen approves with this behavior? Because Im sure thats not the case also. You are acting like its them versus us and we are surrendering.

It was an example to show which way the integration is going. They arent integrating or giving up any of their values, but we are adapting to them to avoid confrontations. I can give you many other examples including a ww2 monument which was removed to please a nearby Mosque. We are way too modest in what we expect of them.

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By the way, alot of western women are also mistreated and hardly leave their homes, but you hardly hear about those i think.. they arnt as noticable as women wearing headscarves. But its very close, i know women who had this happen to them.

You almost literally say something which is written in the article (maybe you should read it ).

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After all everyone is everything; everyone is homosexual, sadistic, racist, anti-social, aggressive, suicidal, etcetera. The question is to what extent. But that seems irrelevant for the Dutch. As far as they're concerned evil is evil. And because the statistics show that among the Dutch occasionally someone loses his self control, a child stole some candy, a woman hit the table with her fist, a police officer pretended not to see his son j-walking, that means that they are just as short fused, thieving, aggressive, and corrupt as any other people.So far I fortunately was never infected with this self-pessimism of the Dutch, but the little bit of optimism I had was totally shattered when I discovered the highest authority in the field of optimism were the same self-pessimistic Dutch, with the possible exception of the Ostrich, of course. Pleasant, nice, friendly, excellent, wonderful, classy, delightful, lovely are their magic words that can turn all evil into good and can straighten out everything that is bent.

The diffrence is that islamic women are abused because of a single cause, the husband believes it is Islam, and the woman also begins to believe its Allah will. She will proudly wear the veil.

If you knew men beating their wifes, and you knew the cause, wouldnt you confront it? Why not confront Islam? You believe youd be a racist?

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And yeah i dont live here very long yet, but long enough to notice differences with where i come from. Immigrants are alot less conservative here. Its alot worse in belgium and france where immigrants got totally ignored (especially in france as we can now see).

Racism is coming from both sides but on a whole diffrent scale. Have you ever seen a westerner work in a kebab shop, or any other islamic business? Do they ever hire westerners? Do they marry ppl with diffrent skin colors, diffrent religions? Arent they plain racist towards gays? What do they think of women who dont wear veils?

Its not racism to treat racists differently, its forcing them to adapt.

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I have muslim friends, no extremist ones though. At my previous job one of my collegues was a muslim. He was a pretty fundamentalist believer of his religion, he also didnt believe in evolution, but only because he never had a great education. I believe proper education can solve problems of the future and feel holland is going the right path with this.

Like i said, you cant see someones believes and you cant possibly see how extreme someone is. The true nature of a man isnt shown untill you put him to the test. I know hundreds of muslims, even some of my best friends are muslims. These are some of the best integrated ppl i know, but ive heard them say surprising things. One guy said he would beat his wife if she even looked at another guy, and another suddenly started talking about how these beheadings show that muslims arent afraid of Americans. Just test someone before you conclude that hes ok because of his smile.

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I understand where your views are coming from, but you are overreacting alot. There isnt going to be a downfall of holland any time soon

You havent understood my views at all. I guess i have to quote myself:

Quote from RD

I dont believe the apocalypse is coming for Holland but we are moving backwards to avoid confrontations with Islam.

It wont be an apocalypse. Things are moving very slowly but already Islam has transformed Holland in the past decade. Artists are getting murdered and threatened and our politicians are hiding. The worst thing is that ppl are angry at the artists or politicians for messing with Islam. Basically ppl are adapting to dhimmitude and we backstab ppl that confront it because we dont want any violence.

Quote from kleinluka

One of my ex-girlfriends is muslim and she's pretty normal as far as clothing goes. She probably wouldn't wear kinky stuff like a mini skirt though. The religion is pretty clear about the fact that muslim women shouldn't dress kinky and look "sexy" in the sense of lying on a beach in a bikini where hundres of men can stare at them... They are not supposed to show certain areas of their body in public but they respect that and live with it. It's that simple. Integration doesn't mean you have to abandon your roots and core beliefs.

Would it be okay if they transformed Canada into Iran then, seeing you have no problem with the culture? Holland is a tiny tiny country and you really dont know how tolerant you are untill "your put to the test"

Also i found this funny:

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Many of them probably don't even WANT to dress sexy because they'd feel uncomfortable. It's just a matter of how you are brought up and what you are told is wrong and right.

But what if you DID wanted to dress sexy??? Wheres the freedom? Maybe there in Canada your gf would get away with it (except near her family and muslim friends), but when your country is dominantly Islamic, she would have no chance. Yes, that is ISLAM. And you are tolerant of it because its not the dominant religion there.

If there is even one single girl feeling like that here in Holland then something is seriously wrong.

Quote from kleinluka

Isn't that what the coalition forces are doing to Iraq right now? (and possibly soon to Iran as well) They walked in and are turning it into a democracy. Canada already is a largely immigrant populated country but people respect eachother and eachother's beliefs for the most part. You can't tell a family to give up their beliefs and values simply because they moved to an other country. Yes they will have to adapt but they shouldn't be asked to abandon their core roots as long as they are socially bearable (no violence, no locking people up, etc.) And trust me my tolarance level has been tested many times and it wasn't always fun.

No, thats not what the coalition is doing in Iraq. Democracy is a tool allowing ppl to have their say. Theres a big difference. You would never know if they want democracy or not if you cant hear their voices.

The only values theyre asked to abandon here is intolerance and oppression. There is no excuse for racism or oppression, not even if its a religion which 9 out of 10 of them follow willingly. Its kind of a paradox that you believe its tolerant to let others be oppressive.

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I hear what you are saying. The dominant religion in Holland is Islam (because of the muslim imigrants?) and they are forcing their values onto the dutch people. I don't agree with that either. I agree people should have the liberty to do whatever they want internally within the family but that they should have to respect the values and traditions of the country they live in. Muslim women have always had it rough... So if lets say a muslim Indian girl grew up in Holland under the rule of her islamic parents then she would be totally under their control. No questions asked. That's the way it goes sadly. Unfortunately you can't force people to give up their traditions.

The muslim woman thats under total control of her family will be sent back to India to marry a guy she has never met and have children 9 months later, while being beaten and locked inside the house and thats ok with you?

Btw, Islam isnt the dominant religion here. Its atheism, after that Christianity and then Islam.

Quote from st0lve

RD, I really don't see what you are so afraid of? You must really hate everything labeled "muslim" or "islam"..You seem so afraid of everything the muslims do, anything from not having christians, jews or catholics working at their kebab shops (which is probably because their meat is slaughtered and threated in a special way) to wearing clothes that their religion wants them to wear.

If you ask me, the Netherlands got bigger things to worry about, like this:

http://%7boption%7d

What would i be afraid of? Let me guess you didnt read anything i wrote and believe i fear for the day that Islam will conquer our government and hate all muslims and islam. Jesus St0lve go read the article and my replies.

The article isnt talking about an apocalypse. The downfall is that we lose our values of tolerance because we are tolerant of intolerance (i know this is deep but try to understand it).

St0lve just one question for you. Say you actually knew a muslim girl, which was sent out to marry some hardcore muslim in an islamic state, and she flees and her murderous family wants to kill her. What would you do?

From what ive seen, you'd call anybody that helps her a racist because its against Islam. If you had actually read anything i ever wrote you wouldve seen i dont hate Islam or headscarves, but the religion being forced on ppl that dont want it.