Open season for level design positions?

I think that with your final project, you'll stand out.

And thats a good thing :]

yeah, and Gaz look at the bright side, there are far more companies in the UK than there are in the rest of Europe (each country individually)

This thread gives me a bit of hope

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Then you have me with that one map for Source

Which map was it, out of interest? Not trying to pick on you (well done for getting the job!)

Also what ReNo said is correct. There are quite a lot of people on the course I'm doing who don't have a drive or passion for games; they are content to coast and see out the degree while failing to improve themselves. Fair enough, some of them have now realised that games aren't for them (I've realised myself that I don't see myself as a C++ programmer), but quite a few are ignorant and think they can go and get a job at a top company just by getting a degree. One of the people in my year (3rd year) didn't even know what a global variable was (he had used global variables but didn't know that's what they're called [i.e. he's an idiot]) and who has basically copied half of every coursework submission from the Internet, yet he thinks he has a chance of getting a job at Blizzard. One of my friends said to him "I'd fucking kill myself if you got a job there" and the guy took that to mean he'd be jealous, haha (my friend obviously meant there's no justice in the world if people like him got a good job). Yeah. Some people are clueless and have no talent. The sad thing is people like him will get a degree and don't know shit / have any intention of improving themselves. Good fucking luck if you get saddled with him in a company.

The only good thing is that some companies will actually make you take a programming test. My mate was hired by Rare and he knows his stuff inside out; every time I see a coursework it blows me away. At the interview he had a programming test, a debugging test and an optimisation test amongst other things. Every company should do something similar to separate the wheat from the spacks.

the map is dod_dijon, it's in the spotlight gallery. First map ever, no 3D experience prior to that, and over 2000 hours spent on it to learn the tools.

Just to put this into perspective, there was no way in hell I actually thought I could land a job in the industry. It was fun, and that's why I was doing it. I had never thought about this as a degree, and went to a business school and studied marketing.

But as time went on, I realized by doing it that I had a lot more fun making it than I ever had studying marketing, or that I had while working for Apple.

And after 15 months of unemployment (those 15 months I took to make this map) I was lucky to find someone to hire me, and the icing on the cake was that it was in the industry.

So yeah, I consider myself extremely lucky. I know people will think I don't deserve the position (not here personally but in general) and that's also what I think, because I know how much others would like it and they've worked harder. I have said before to Insta or Skdr how much they deserved that position a lot more than me, and I have the utmost respect for guys that have worked their asses off and were making maps when I wasn't even playing DoD. At the same time, it's up to me to prove that I can fit in, and that's the mentality I go to work with every day (see my previous post about mentality). Low profile, learn from the pros and do my own thing. What must happen will happen.

Scary story Defrag! Making it to the 3rd year without knowing about variable scopes...jeez.

i don't wnat to throw the thread off topic but is there a matrix somewhere showing the average age of people working in the industry?

sometimes I feel like I've gotten off to a late start and it's prolly too late to get a job in the industry. I'm a gamer for life and I know there will be a certain demand for more mature titles in the future games so that gives me a little hope but who knows, right now it's all pipe dreams.

as long as you have skills then it doesn't matter. At GBX level design avg age is 23, probably. There are two older, lead level designers, the rest are young 20 year olds. But I see people ranging from 20-40 working here.

well that makes me feel a hell of lot better. thx mojo, good info.

anyone know where i can find some skills now

here is a nifty little map I found

http://www.gamedevmap.com/

yep that's a very good find. It doesn't have them all for sure but it's a very good start.

And same thing for the age span of people at Montpellier: 20 to 45, with people in their 30s considered the experienced guys.

[Blocked Image: http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060501.jpg]

So this is all bs then? ->

Many thanks for expressing an interest in our Level Designer position.  Unfortunately you haven't quite got the background / experience the company in question is looking for, and as such we won't be able to submit your details to them.




 




It is extremely tough to break into the games industry at the moment - most clients are requesting a minimum of 2 years’ experience from potential candidates who will therefore have worked on at least one published title, or graduates with a 2.1 or higher in a games-specific degree.  There have been quite a large number of studio closures all over the UK, which have flooded the market with experienced candidates looking for a new job, making things even more difficult for the talented but inexperienced people trying to get a foot in the door.




 




The best of luck finding the right opportunity, and sorry we can’t be of assistance.

They could be one of the companies that want experienced LDs. All the LDs here don't have 2 years industry experience, but have well over 2,3, even 4+ years of mod experience and creating levels on their own free time.

Sad thing is that you could have a bunch of years mapping but, to some companies, if you aren't in the industry then they don't even look at you. Its not really the company that is at fault since maybe if someone on the LD team saw your work they might think its great, but when the resumes come through Human Resource Department, or whereever, and they see no industry experience, then it is just turned away.

a damn shame really. I feel like I either have to start cranking out levels (currently doing) or join a mod to even have a chance.

question: do you think they'd look at a demo reel even if they HR dept didn't qualify the resume?

Here's what I know to be true based on my own experience:

1. We are and will be even more hungry for LDs. Most of our projects are in prototype or semi-prototype which means smaller teams. When we move into full production we are going to need LDs. After reviewing our submissions I was extremely disapointed, I had to go looking myself. So yes, at least at GBX, right now is a great time to pursue LD although expect delays.

2. Most of the mod LD portfolios we get are better ART portfolios then ART game-school portfolios. I'd say about 80%~90% of the time this is true.

3. People that get hired for doing just one good map are extremely rare, usually they are really talented and have experience in traditional art or some related field. If they do get hired it's the studios fault if the person is not talented. Hiring a LD with just one map in their portfolio and no other experience is an extreme NO GO. Even if it is great. One decent level and a dozen okay or bad ones usually gets more interest.

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question: do you think they'd look at a demo reel even if they HR dept didn't qualify the resume?

No because it prolly wouldnt even be forwarded to the leads...

You just need a bit of luck for that kind of stuff. Applying at a large company might turn out well but in general most smaller companies are more likely to hire mod people to my experience.

I dont really like companies who have a HR department checking peoples work. Im sorry but if you know jack shit of the subject you shouldnt be making any decisions on it. And if that is the way to go in such companies I wonder what kind of other weird decisions/things they do...you might not want to work there in the first place.

Or you can ofcourse also continue modding and hope some lead or whatever notices your work

One good map = The author was lucky

Two good levels = Still lucky

10 good levels = Shows he knows exactly what to do to get a good result. Skill and not luck.

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One good map = The author was lucky

Two good levels = Still lucky

10 good levels = Shows he knows exactly what to do to get a good result. Skill and not luck.

I think it's going to be more and more difficult for a mapper to create a greater amout of impressive maps.

To create an stunning map you need at least some custom content, because nobody gets excited by a city17-looking map, no matter how well it's done. And that's the big problem, because current gen (HL2, Doom3) mapping plus the creation of custom textures and props is extremely time consuming.

There are very few HL2 (or CSS) maps with custom content. Maybe the best of them is de_corse by hessi and the guy worked as far as I know over 1 year on it.

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I think it's going to be more and more difficult for a mapper to create a greater amout of impressive maps. To create an stunning map you need at least some custom content, because nobody gets excited by a city17-looking map, no matter how well it's done. And that's the big problem, because current gen (HL2, Doom3) mapping plus the creation of custom textures and props is extremely time consuming.

There are very few HL2 (or CSS) maps with custom content. Maybe the best of them is de_corse by hessi and the guy worked as far as I know over 1 year on it.

This is excactly what frustrates me too, but then again, you learn so much by doing one level these days...

Quote from sensee

I think it's going to be more and more difficult for a mapper to create a greater amout of impressive maps.

To create an stunning map you need at least some custom content, because nobody gets excited by a city17-looking map, no matter how well it's done. And that's the big problem, because current gen (HL2, Doom3) mapping plus the creation of custom textures and props is extremely time consuming.

There are very few HL2 (or CSS) maps with custom content. Maybe the best of them is de_corse by hessi and the guy worked as far as I know over 1 year on it.

There will be less good maps in the future yeah but its still possible as discussed before.

Certainly for HL2 its possible. I can understand that for UT2007 and HL3 or whatever there will be less content but that shouldnt be the case for the current generation of games. UT2004 is in a lot of ways similar to HL2. HL2 uses even more bsp thus relying less on meshes yet there are hundreds of UT2004 maps with a lot or nearly only custom content which results in a lot of themes.

It is possible.

Im sure fewer maps will be more able to impress in the future but the point will still stand. You do not have a lot of experience if you only made one or two levels and I see that happen to a lot of people, they still face a lot of difficulties or trouble when they design a level after they are hired. Its not just the skill of making it, its also the skill of designing it and finishing it. Someone who made a lot of levels is very efficient at what he does because he knows exactly what steps to take because he has done it so many times before. And no matter how awesome and extensive that one level is the author still did everything just one time...

that's all really good info guys. good to know.

For me, i'm concentrating my efforts on getting levels finished right now. I always have at least one project on the table with several others still in the conception stage, either working on layouts or concept art. From what I understand 10 levels seems to be the magic number for a portfolio. Well should I include 8 decent levels along with 2 really good ones or should I work on creating 5 stellar levels and scrap all the decent ones?

Please advise.

Also as a follow up, I've had a couple mods talk to me about joining their teams. So far I'm reluctant to say yes as I'm worried the mod could either fail or just plain suck, waisting valuable time and efforts. Would that more detrimental than going solo producing levels on my own or is working with a team more important even if it doens't fully get off the ground.