Revolution Gets Cooler

Quote from Alf-Life

OMG, all I want is a 60fps GoldenEye.

Don't think you will see GoldenEye, it's owned by MS.

speaking of the ps3, I heard its developers kit was just obnoxiously big.

Nintendo announced the hardware inside the rev: http://revolution.ign.com/articles/699/699118p1.html

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Revolution's HorsepowerStudios give us the inside scoop on the clock rates for Broadway and Hollywood. How do the CPU and GPU stack up on paper?

by Matt Casamassina

March 29, 2006 - Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has said that his company is not interested in waging a technology war against Microsoft and Sony, whose next generation consoles promise more power and in turn high-definition graphics. The Big N's still-codenamed Revolution system is in contrast designed to be quiet, small and affordable. Nintendo has invested millions in an innovative new controller that has the potential to permanently change the way people play games - for the better, the company hopes. As a result, players would be hard-pressed to find any Nintendo executive willing to go on the record about Revolution technical specs. In fact, former Nintendo of Europe marketing chief, Jim Merrick, indicated in an interview last year that the company may never divulge details on Revolution's horsepower to the public.

Obviously, Nintendo is unable to take the same approach with game studios, many of whom are currently working with Revolution development hardware and in possession of finalized system specifications. IGN Revolution is in regular contact with software houses making titles for Nintendo's new generation system. Last year we relayed to our readers initial system specs based on insider reports. Today, we present updated information on Revolution's "Broadway" CPU and "Hollywood" GPU, which are provided to Nintendo by IBM and ATI respectively.

For today's report we spoke to a variety of trusted development sources, all of whom are in possession of Revolution development hardware - some more finalized than others. The studios who updated us with this information have asked to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, but we can verify that the specifications forwarded to us are current and come by way of either official Nintendo documentation or benchmark tests with working Revolution kits.

Insiders stress that Revolution runs on an extension of the Gekko and Flipper architectures that powered GameCube, which is why studios who worked on GCN will have no problem making the transition to the new machine, they say. IBM's "Broadway" CPU is clocked at 729MHz, according to updated Nintendo documentation. By comparison, GameCube's Gekko CPU ran at 485MHz. The original Xbox's CPU, admittedly a different architecture altogether, was clocked at 733MHz. Meanwhile, Xbox 360 runs three symmetrical cores at 3.2GHz.

Nintendo's Revolution console, as seen on-display at the Game Developers Conference 2006

Clearly, numbers don't mean everything, but on paper Revolution's CPU falls performance-wise somewhere well beyond GameCube and just shy of the original Xbox. However, it's important to remember that there is no way to accurately gauge the performance difference between GCN's PowerPC-based architecture and the the Intel-based CPU of Xbox. Further, even if we could, these numbers are only one part of the equation.

Revolution's ATI-provided "Hollywood" GPU clocks in at 243MHz. By comparison, GameCube's GPU ran at 162MHz, while the GPU on the original Xbox was clocked at 233MHz. Sources we spoke with suggest that it is unlikely the GPU will feature any added shaders, as has been speculated.

"The 'Hollywood' is a large-scale integrated chip that includes the GPU, DSP, I/O bridge and 3MBs of texture memory," a studio source told us.

The overall system memory numbers we reported last December have not greatly fluctuated, but new clarifications have surfaced. Revolution will operate using 24MBs of "main" 1T-SRAM. It will additionally boast 64MBs of "external" 1T-SRAM. That brings the total number of system RAM up to 88MBs, not including the 3MB texture buffer on the GPU. By comparison, GameCube featured 40MBs of RAM not counting the GPU's on-board 3MBs. The original Xbox included 64MBs total RAM. Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 operate on 512MBs of RAM.

It is not known if the 14MBs of extra D-RAM we reported on last December are in the current Revolution specifications.

"The external RAM can be accessed as quickly as the main RAM, which is a nice touch," a developer we spoke with alleged.

Lots of numbers, but what do they all mean? The short answer is that Revolution is exactly as Nintendo has publicly stated: a console whose primary focus is not quadrupling raw horsepower, but rather a potentially gameplay-changing new controller. Nintendo's new hardware supports this innovative new peripheral and not the other way around. Looking back, it makes sense.

In early 2004, Nintendo's former president Hiroshi Yamauchi said that it was unnecessary to accelerate the release of next generation consoles; that current machines were more than adequate. The Big N announced that it would release a series of peripherals to extend the life of GameCube, but only halfheartedly supported the approach with limited microphone and bongo-enhanced titles.

Sources close to Nintendo have, however, told IGN Revolution that the company was experimenting with in-development GameCube controllers very similar to Revolution's freestyle-style unit. The problem research and development faced at the time was that these controllers encountered unavoidable latency issues, which made them nearly incompatible with fast-paced software. Apparently the Big N overcame this particular hurdle.

Whether or not Revolution is, in fact, a vehicle for the new freestyle controller or not, systems specs rarely tell the whole story. We would remind readers that during an era when polygon numbers meant everything, GameCube's polygon peaks were lower than PlayStation 2 and Xbox. However, few would disagree with the assertion that Resident Evil 4 - a title developed from the ground-up for Nintendo's system -- was one of the prettiest games of the generation.

A spokesperson for ATI had no comment, except to say that the provider was excited to be working with Nintendo on the Hollywood GPU.

IGN Revolution contacted Nintendo of America for comment, but the company did not return our query in time for publish.

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A bit underpowered, it seems, but I'm sure they know what they're doing.

I wouldn't even care if Revolution had the same specs as the GameCube.

One of the best looking games I've seen on any system is Resident Evil 4. I mean, screw normal mapping and all these fancy shaders. What really counts is the art style and the lifelike animations.

Same goes for Shadow of the Colossus btw.

Immense.

Gameplay > Graphics

Look at DoD:S, shiny and nice looking, plays like crap.

Yeah, gameplay better than graphics, but graphics don't hurt either. I really hope that they can make good with this new controller and ensure third party support, because with those specs there is no way in hell they are likely to be getting many cross platform titles that aren't severely toned down/reworked, and that will scare off some publishers.

One thing that should be interesting about this generation is the (probable) wide range of price points. The Revolution is undoubtedly going to be the cheapest - it has to be to compete I imagine - and could be what, around £150 or less? The 360 is currently up at £280 but will probably be dropped to nearer £200 by the time the PS3 hits. The PS3 is almost certainly going to be the highest priced of the lot, I imagine going for over £300. That means we could see three consoles in the same generation with significant price differences at the same time. I wonder how much that will play a part in the relative success stories?

Resident Evil 4 is indeed visually amazing, but then it came out for a system that is smack bang in the middle of its class that generation. If the GC was techinically crippled compared to the other two of the generation, would RE4 have looked so awesome? I doubt it. Same goes for SoTC. You might say screw normal mapping and fancy shaders, but WITHOUT those things, you wouldn't be getting effects that contribute to the art style - be it the fur of the colossi, or cel-shading of Jet Set Radio, or crazy and beautiful particle effects of Otogi, or whatever else. Lifelike animation isn't divorced from a system's power either - dedicated CPUs for physics calculations such as inverse kinematics can help make them more realistic and specialised to suit the scenario, while lesser equiped systems will have to sacrifice these things for simpler, more generic animation.

In short, the technical prowess of a system helps empower developers to realise the art style they are going for.

MAN! Fucking sweet! I can't wait to re-buy all the games I originally bought instead of you know, downloading MAME games. This is a shitty marketing tactic that is really REALLY going to fall short in the long run.

Quote from The Postman

MAN! Fucking sweet! I can't wait to re-buy all the games I originally bought instead of you know, downloading MAME games. This is a shitty marketing tactic that is really REALLY going to fall short in the long run.

1) MAME is for arcade games. They are selling NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, and TurboGFX 16 games.

2) It's not a marketing tactic because they are offering a service. A service people want.

3) Outside of the small hardcore gamer minority, the mass populace is not aware of emulation as a viable means to play old games. In addition, emulation of copyrighted games is illegal and some people don't like to do illegal things.

4) I think it will be incredibly commercially viable. Nintendo has always had some of the strongest franchies out there, and I don't know many people that wouldn't shell out a couple bucks to play Mario 3 or Zelda : A Link to the Past again (or dare I bring up the Super Metroid, Earthbound, Chrono Trigger crowd.) This comes at very little cost to Nintendo minus some simple engineering costs. This means that even slow sales are profit.

5) You're not rebuying them at anywhere near the cost. They aren't going to charge you fifty dollars to play Mario 2. It's a low price that's a lot lower than what you'd pay in a store for one of those older games (I see Gamestop charge 25+ for snes games that are good.) For certain people this is a good deal because they don't have the means to get another NES or SNES and set it up.

6) The second this goes live I'll probably hit the buy all button.

I guess we can also buy games that never came out in our countries too. Earthbound etc never came out in the UK so we never got to know Ness well.

Quote from mikezilla

1) MAME is for arcade games. They are selling NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, and TurboGFX 16 games.

Point taken, I actually meant to say emulation. However you are right that it's a smaller group of people who know about emulation, but it's also an ever smaller and smaller group that remember these old games and will buy them for nostalgia. That being said, this business model can't continue forever.

Quote from mikezilla

2) It's not a marketing tactic because they are offering a service. A service people want.

It's a marketing tactic because they're offering a kitsche service because vintage is popular currently, although personally I see that trend waning a bit. Think of it kind of in the same vein of "vintage" tee-shirts.

Quote from mikezilla

4) I think it will be incredibly commercially viable. Nintendo has always had some of the strongest franchies out there, and I don't know many people that wouldn't shell out a couple bucks to play Mario 3 or Zelda : A Link to the Past again (or dare I bring up the Super Metroid, Earthbound, Chrono Trigger crowd.) This comes at very little cost to Nintendo minus some simple engineering costs. This means that even slow sales are profit.

They market to the kitsche audience now. That's really all they've got and when that dries up, then what? Sales of the 'cube paled in comparison to other consoles like the PS2 and hell, even the XBox later in its life. Regurgitating old content can only keep the coffers full for so long. If Nintendo wanted to keep in the game, they'd re-invent some of those franchises or even seek new ones with strong ideas backing them. I do realize that there is nearly zero overhead for these to be "made" though, so I suppose that's a plus in their direction.

Quote from mikezilla

5) You're not rebuying them at anywhere near the cost. They aren't going to charge you fifty dollars to play Mario 2. It's a low price that's a lot lower than what you'd pay in a store for one of those older games (I see Gamestop charge 25+ for snes games that are good.) For certain people this is a good deal because they don't have the means to get another NES or SNES and set it up.

I'm still re-buying them though. I'm re-buying games I've already purchased. That just rubs me the wrong way. It might not bother you, but it bothers me, let's leave that one to opinion, eh?

Quote from Fletch

USA sales, yes. Interntaional, no. The Gamecube outsold the x-box worldwide, with the PS2 in a huge lead. Also, the Gamecube hardwarre was the only one that was selling without losing money on it, which looks like the same situation with the Revolution.

However it's important to remember which market is the biggest and most important. Japan and Europe are nice enough but the markets there aren't nearly as huge as America.

Quote from Fletch

Nintendo is just going for a different market, and it will be interesting to see how the Revolution turns out when it comes to that. Their console is probably going to cost somewhere from 200-250 at launch. They've said their games are not going to be in the 50-60 range, so a 45 price tag on games seems reasonable. They've also seemingly embraced a sort of universal compatability mantra. Gamecube games work on the system, you can download old system games. The DS will reportedly be able to cummunicate wirelessly with it. They seem to want to give developers more freedom to work within that framework (as opposed to the PS3 which I've yet to hear a positive thing about as far as the dev kits go).Also, Nintendo may have very well isolated themselves from the oncoming storm of political backlash for violent and overly sexual videogames. Sure, most of the laws are going to get thrown out on constitutional issues, but some are going to stick. And people like Parent's Television Council and the Institute for Media and the Family tend to hold long grudges and do a good job mobilizing people at boycotts. So when shit really starts to hit the fan (and it will within the next 6 months), Nintendo is going to stand back and say "Hey, we had nothing to do with that. We've been making fun games for all ages for years. We don't have GTA or Postal on our system. So when you're spending your holiday money on a console for little Johnny, be sure to spend your money on good old fashioned Nintendo products, like your parents did for you when you were a kid." Little Johnny might be pissed off for a few minutes that he didn't get an Xbox 360, but then he'll pop in Mario and Zelda and be happy for a good long while.

In doing so they've also limited themselves in markets as well, though. People who want to purchase PG13+ or MA rated games don't go to Nintendo for it. Granted, the younger audiences are still a good market share, but have nowhere near the buying power of the good ol' 18-25 bracket. Furthermore, whether or not those laws stick doesn't mean they're any more enforceable.

However, I will say that they've got the handheld market nailed down like crazy and I love my DS.

Ha, I wanna see the parent who is like "oh look a wholesome gamecube" and then their kid buys Killer7 or Resident Evil 4.

well...this one will come down to execution. Will Nintendo succeed? Who knows? They have had so many hits and so many flops that only time will tell. My money is on Revolution being a decent platform that in the end will outsell Gamecube over the same time horizon, even if it still lags behind PS3 and X360.

I'm a little curious at all the debate about whether this is smart for Nintendo do to. I have to think about it more, but the passion for this debate alone makes me think that Nintendo, if they do this right, could have an awesome system on their hands.

Quote from The Postman

However, I will say that they've got the handheld market nailed down like crazy and I love my DS.

True dat.

Quote from ginger_lord

I guess we can also buy games that never came out in our countries too. Earthbound etc never came out in the UK so we never got to know Ness well.

Europe didn't get Super Mario RPG either. Stuff like this is a great opportunity.