the new cartoon thread

    Tigers aren't mindless killers, they kill to eat, so do EVERY SINGLE HUMAN (except vegitarians). So don't try to blame the tigers. Watch more Animal Planet if you don't believe me.

    Anyhow y'all understand that the drawings aren't adding anything good into the world. Not for the Muslims, nor for the Western people.

    Wow another racial image, great.

    You say that ALL Islamic people are terrorists? You say that ALL Islmaic people hate the West? You say basicly say that all Islamic people are the same? Well you are wrong.

    I just hope that the cartoonist who thought that it would be a good idea to do the drawings is sleeping well, knowing that he has blood of hundreds of brutally murdered innocent people in his hands.

    I bet he sleeps like a baby, unless he has already killed himself.

    Yeah, but he could have thought about making it first, and even after he did it, apologise, even if his apologies wouldn't have had so great impact, but it would have saved some lifes atleast, every life you can safe is worth some personal discomfort of an apology.

    But you are absolutely right, he isn't the one and only reason, the tension between muslims and christians have been tight for long but like someone already said, he made the proverbial last straw.

    But his chief editor is also a big part of the problem, he is the man/woman who decides what gets published. Also, why did other papers around the world publish it, I understand the "freedom of speech stand" that they are trying to pull, but when the conversation inside your head is "we should really make a stand for free speech and kill few people by pissing off people and directing their hatred towards innocent people, the best idea of the decade" you should really stop for a minute.

    I understand that, but the point being that they were and still are looking for an excuse to cause trouble, so I thought that it would be cool not to give them the excuse.

    I don't like the whole pushing of people to the edge thing, when I was in school, there was this kid, small nerd guy and all that, got picked on by some jackass in the school, and one day out of the blue during gymnastics the kid hits the bully in the face with a hockey stick. Wrecked his teeth and almost popped his eye, nasty, and all this for what? Did the bully get something out of it? Did the little nerd get something else than a micro second of satisfaction before realizing that the is in a world of trouble?

    These kind of pointless things that people do just beucase they can do is just a waste of everyones time and in this case, several lifes, sure the cartoonist didn't have the insight to tell what was going to come, but I would have more sense than do such a drawing.

    Wow,

    I just read this whole thread. It's cool to see people being real hypocrites, like posty. Haha! Man, you might want to take note of Skjalg's advice because the way you are behaving is not acceptable atm. Take this as constructive critisism. I hope your pride doesn't block it.

    Plus I think it's twisted to be offended by the (non-insultive) 9/11 remark by RD (demonising him) while you are making comparisons to the holocaust yourself. It's disgusting.

    [Blocked Image: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8469/g1yg6xb.gif]

    Now ontopic:

    I agree with RD for the biggest part. Unlike posty, I don't think it's wise to reflect the western civilisation onto the middle eastern and to then draw conclusions. They are not us in other appearances; they think different and therefor need a different approach.

    Im just wondering....

    Why do we and them make this as big of an issue that we do (they rather including every one except me it seems like any way).

    Some one thought they where going to be smart.

    This some one understod that if i push this button the whole Islamic community will go berserk.

    And thats just what they did.

    Mission acomplished.

    Now we (western sociaty) is keeping it up talking about it to the death.

    Analyzing it to shreads.

    Instead of just accepting it for what it is.

    Some rightwinged (or leftwinged or neo nazis or anything else that have issues with Muslims) did his best to piss the Muslims of and succeded.

    And the question of what to do with these forces in the world i have not a clue.

    And i can't for my life understand how Islamic community doesn't see through this and understands that what was drawn is nothing the majority of western sociaty thinks about them.

    People that meet people learns about people.

    Spellbinder.

    Quote from killertomato

    They are not us in other appearances; they think different and therefor need a different approach.

    And therefor we shouldn't have made the drawings in the first place.

    Depends. We shouldn't be provocative for no reason, without it being legal etc. But in this case, we weren't.

    Facts unfortunatly are that the biggest part of the muslimcommunities in europe are intollerant, hostile and dominant. Therefore we (europe, europians) have the right to give feedback on that, on our own special and democratic way. It's not that we are only being asses to outsiders, minorities and whatnot. We are being asses to everybody, this is our way of giving feedback and letting other people know what we think of something.

    Quote from killertomato

    Wow,

    It's okay, I think RD's a big boy and can take care of himself. Thanks for rushing to his rescue though, Killertomato. :roll:

    Quote from killertomato

    Now ontopic:I agree with RD for the biggest part. Unlike posty, I don't think it's wise to reflect the western civilisation onto the middle eastern and to then draw conclusions. They are not us in other appearances; they think different and therefor need a different approach.

    Why isn't it wise to reflect the western civilization onto the ME? We're from the western civilization, it's what we know. Like Stolve said, knowing this we shouldn't have antagonized them like we did.

    Quote from killertomato

    Depends. We shouldn't be provocative for no reason, without it being legal etc. But in this case, we weren't. Facts unfortunatly are that the biggest part of the muslimcommunities in europe are intollerant, hostile and dominant. Therefore we (europe, europians) have the right to give feedback on that, on our own special and democratic way. It's not that we are only being asses to outsiders, minorities and whatnot. We are being asses to everybody, this is our way of giving feedback and letting other people know what we think of something.

    This is what everyone has said. The first cartoon was just a social faux pas. The rest of the reprints and grand-standing by politicians was just morons throwing gasoline on the fire. What they did during the first protesting reaction was simply antagonistic, nothing more.

    They have no reason to be angry and they were never pestered to a boiling point by the west. It is only a self-imposed illusion that you are feeding by telling them its true.

    Posty you mentioned iraq, afghanistan, abuse of the koran etc etc.

    This happens to all religions. They burn bibles, they kill christians, they blow up giant statues of Buddha and show it on their news, they are in several warzones involving christianity, indonesia, darfur, chechnya, all way before we invaded Afghanistan (which wasnt pestering, the Afghans are actually delighted to be rid of the taliban). They bomb our capitals, they behead european artists that criticise Islam, they bomb our subways, they bomb our tourist hotspots, they bomb our churches, the bombed our trainstations, they behead little schoolgirls, they behead westerners on their tv channels, etc etc etc. We have just as much reason to be angry, even tho there is no "them" that did all these things to us. There is also no "us" that they should be angry at.

    But you Posty are giving muslims the special treatment and believe that they have the right to be angry because they are muslims. Btw i didnt dodge any of your points

    The 911 remark was about you saying they were relatively quiet before WE started it all. But it was in fact Osama which set it all off, so thats them as much as Bush is us.

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    Exactly, and this is what we have to promote over there, the slow removal of Islamic state regimes. Not stupid antagonistic cartoons.

    Thats a diffrence of opinion and not me dodging your point. The slow removal of Islamic regimes, yeah right. I didnt see you wait patiently after 911, but guess what we did after Madrid and London. We turn the other cheek and they boil over. Were there any riots about these bombings?

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    I knew this would fly right over your head. Should I break out the finger puppets to explain it monosyllabically for you? The cartoons only fanned the flames and gave an excuse for the people in the governments in these countries to really whip the crowd into a frenzy. Ever action by the EU afterwards only added fuel to that fire. The sickness is a universality because it can effect anyone, in this case it has infected the impoverished peoples of the ME.

    If there is even one american weblog with those toons on them, you are a hypocrit. The only reason you arent in the same shit as Denmark is that they dont get many news updates in the middle east and are too busy right now. One email to the right person and all your embassies will burn, whether the email is fake or not is irrelevant. Imagine us calling you racist and xenophobic then.

    Yes, this is about a toon, printed or not is absolutely irrelevant. If it hadnt been printed they would today be rioting because it simply exists or because a westerner wore his shoes in a mosque.

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    Way to dodge the point, retard.

    The tiger thing wasnt a dodge, you just didnt understand it.

    After all this has happened the only logical conclusion is that the toon was true, the author had every right to portray his opinion. Those who become violent over the toon become violent over Muhammed. The truth hurts, but its not racist.

    Quote from killertomato

    Facts unfortunatly are that the biggest part of the muslimcommunities in europe are intollerant, hostile and dominant.

    Have you ever met any Muslims or Islamic believers? Well I have. And none of them have insulted me nor any others of my friends, they aren't more violent than any generic people and they aren't intollerant. They were much like your everyday people. (Yeah they live in Norway, living here for 3 years)

    Quote from killertomato

    We are being asses to everybody, this is our way of giving feedback and letting other people know what we think of something.

    There are other ways, and we "oh so good" Western people should know this.

    Yes, infact I have met several muslim believers. I also discuss issues with them, on an equal level. Fact still remains that the majority of the muslims are dominant, intolerant and hostile. It's not only the radical leaders hwo should be marked as dangerous, it's also the crowd that follows them. And then you have a crowd that just does nothing.

    Atm, my brother is being held captive for trying to port a muslim to another country, were he will not be sent back to his country were he will most certainly be killed. This is the way me and my brother are brought up: to help people no matter what believe or color etc. My uncle has been shot to death by palestinian terrorists, while picking up his car in a garage in Israel. Please spare me the 'have you ever...?' part. It doesn't make you look good.

    And yes, I believe we (the oh so good western people) have a much better world. For obvious reasons like:

    - women are treated equall with men

    - we have a better lawsystem

    - we are more educated, thus better capable of making decisions of all nature

    - we have more rights

    - we are less corrupt

    - we are wealthier

    - we take care of our elderly and needy

    - we have FREEDOM (of speech) damnit!

    And I can go like this for much longer.

    Quote from st0lve

    Have you ever met any Muslims or Islamic believers? Well I have. And none of them have insulted me nor any others of my friends, they aren't more violent than any generic people and they aren't intollerant. They were much like your everyday people. (Yeah they live in Norway, living here for 3 years)

    You are still in denial of the problem. They ARE nice as long as you do what they want. This whole discussion is about them turning into killing machines when they dont get their way. Ask any of your friends what should happen to the cartoonists or Salman Rushdie.

    But youre just too lazy to do it and find out. Ive asked Posty as well but hes afraid of the truth too, or he doesnt have any muslims living around him.

    Maybe you think its ok for them to condone the killing or beheadings of blasphemizers? Or you think its a joke when they say it with a smile?

    Quote from RD

    You are still in denial of the problem. They ARE nice as long as you do what they want. This whole discussion is about them turning into killing machines when they dont get their way. Ask any of your friends what should happen to the cartoonists or Salman Rushdie.

    How does this have anything to do with the discussion about the cartoons themselves? The cartoons were done by Danish people to offend Muslims, and that worked splendidly. Then other nations antagonized them further when the reaction swelled. This is like chastizing someone for getting angry when you call them an asshole. "My word! Look at this chap, flaring up like this when I call his mother a whore! How uncivilized!"

    Oh but they've done such horrible things! Well what does that have to do with what's currently going on? It has zero bearing on this situation within the scope of strictly this situation. RD you repeatedly appeal to authority or bring up non-correlating events in an effort to reach for emotional outrage in a hopes that it will somehow block out that you have no real argument other than "PS muslims suk doods lol m i rite?"

    Quote from RD

    But youre just too lazy to do it and find out. Ive asked Posty as well but hes afraid of the truth too, or he doesnt have any muslims living around him.

    I have a day-job you flamebaiting moron. I have encountered muslims before, and they've been nice normal folks just like any others. Now you're just trolling. Get on topic or get the fuck out of Poli-Disc.

    Quote from RD

    Maybe you think its ok for them to condone the killing or beheadings of blasphemizers? Or you think its a joke when they say it with a smile?

    Can I get a "don't feed the trolls" macro in here, please?

    Quote from killertomato

    And yes, I believe we (the oh so good western people) have a much better world. For obvious reasons like:

    - women are treated equall with men

    Pay is not equal, especially here in the states. There are also LARGE groups of evangelicals and other religious types that believe women should be seen and not heard, or should be simply baby factories. Pay, insurance, marriage, etc etc etc. This point is hollow.

    Quote from killertomato

    - we have a better lawsystem

    We have due process and sometimes we even ignore that. Hello US's NSA spy program! Hello secret CIA prisons! We have a better ideal, but we're just better at hiding the stuff that people don't like to see or think about.

    Quote from killertomato

    - we are more educated, thus better capable of making decisions of all nature

    I've seen people with multiple degrees who are fucking idiots and people without them who are geniuses. Education is good, no doubt about that, but having a worldly perspective and an open mind is all the better. In general we're better about that. Quality of education is a big part of this too.

    Quote from killertomato

    - we have more rights

    To them they have plenty. They do need to work on other rights, such as rights for women and more education on the whole. However in countries that poor your average joe is worried more about the basic necessities for life than something as ephemereal as rights. We need to get them out of that poverty funk before they can really move forward in that regard.

    Quote from killertomato

    - we are less corrupt

    BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. Oh my

    Quote from killertomato

    - we are wealthier

    Actually the oil rich nations are pretty well off. Distribution of wealth is another thing entirely. Also the fact that this followed the corruption line is all too

    Quote from killertomato

    - we take care of our elderly and needy

    And they don't? Where the fuck are you pulling this from?

    Quote from killertomato

    - we have FREEDOM (of speech) damnit!

    FREEDOM! LIBERTY! AMERICAN EAGLES! RED. WHITE. BLUE!!!!!! THESE COLORS DON'T RUN!!! Ugh, that poor word has gotten trodden on so badly in this last decade. You have freedom of speech so long as your speech follows the bandwagon of your country. I can't put swaztikas on products going to Germany and fascist political parties are outlawed in various EU countries, along with communist parties in a few.

    Quote from killertomato

    And I can go like this for much longer.

    Please do. I love ripping this stuff to shreds.

    "De VS hebben een beetje een versteend vrijheidsbeeld"

    (sorry mods for not speaking English but this just cannot be translated and both RD and killertomato will understand)

    Dude, the only thing you're ripping to shreds is my confidence in you interpretating my posts good!

    Let me shed some light on my arguments (wich I thaught were pretty clear)...

    [patience mode]

    Quote

    Pay is not equal, especially here in the states. There are also LARGE groups of evangelicals and other religious types that believe women should be seen and not heard, or should be simply baby factories. Pay, insurance, marriage, etc etc etc. This point is hollow.

    I said more equal. This does not mean 'perfect'. If you had a doughter, were would you want her to be brought up, in the west, or the east?

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    We have due process and sometimes we even ignore that. Hello US's NSA spy program! Hello secret CIA prisons! We have a better ideal, but we're just better at hiding the stuff that people don't like to see or think about.

    Of course. Almost every nation has it's own little dirty secrets but at least we try to the few we have! But yeah, I bet you'd rather be sentenced according to the sharia when you get caught stealing bread to survive. You didn't really use the left hand anyway, right?

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    I've seen people with multiple degrees who are fucking idiots and people without them who are geniuses. Education is good, no doubt about that, but having a worldly perspective and an open mind is all the better. In general we're better about that. Quality of education is a big part of this too.

    So? how is this ripping my statements apart?

    Quote

    To them they have plenty. They do need to work on other rights, such as rights for women and more education on the whole. However in countries that poor your average joe is worried more about the basic necessities for life than something as ephemereal as rights. We need to get them out of that poverty funk before they can really move forward in that regard.

    Oh, you asked them I presume? Do I smell some contradiction, postman?

    Plus, may I remind you that civil rights belong to the basis of the foundation of a nation?

    Quote

    BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. Oh my Deliverance

    Again, I see no valid argument, postman... Let me underline for you that europe (to name a continent..) is less corrupt then Russia, Iran, Tunesia, Lebannon, Syria, Egypt or Pakistan?

    Quote

    Actually the oil rich nations are pretty well off. Distribution of wealth is another thing entirely. Also the fact that this followed the corruption line is all too Damn Dog

    Yes, that's what I said. How are you shredding apart my statements again? When I'm talking about wealth, I mean 'the people', as any moron would understand. A nation with wealthy inhabitants is wealthy.

    Quote

    And they don't? Where the fuck are you pulling this from?

    Take a small noteblock and make a 30 minutes stroll to the nearest big city around. Make not of every beggar you see. Then take a plane to a ME city of comparable size and repeat the above. compare.

    Quote

    FREEDOM! LIBERTY! AMERICAN EAGLES! RED. WHITE. BLUE!!!!!! THESE COLORS DON'T RUN!!! Ugh, that poor word has gotten trodden on so badly in this last decade. You have freedom of speech so long as your speech follows the bandwagon of your country. I can't put swaztikas on products going to Germany and fascist political parties are outlawed in various EU countries, along with communist parties in a few.

    I'm starting to think you have some serious issues, maty. You're full of contradiction, not to mention bullshit and hostility...

    [/patience mode]

    Next time I won't spend 5 minutes to explain obvious statements... This feels like wasting my time.

    Quote from DaanO

    "De VS hebben een beetje een versteend vrijheidsbeeld"(sorry mods for not speaking English but this just cannot be translated and both RD and killertomato will understand)

    "THE US have a beetje a petrified freedom picture"

    Petrified freedom pictures for all! Tiny American flags for others.

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