A quick little note

Quote from Fletch

Ok kids, I get it. The Postman is a big mean monster that kills all your posts. Guess what, I do it to. And in regards to the stuff that's been deleted in the last few days, both of us have talked about it previous to it happening. If you're going to be mad at The Postman, you might as well be mad at me to. The Postman just takes the time to tell you why your posts are gone and I could care less about your petty feelings.I am not your mommy. Neither is The Postman. We don't delete posts where any of you are expressing your viewpoint or engaging in debate. We delete posts where you try to turn this forum into EOT. We delete posts that fuck up the forum software. We delete posts that are way off topic or personal attacks against somebody. If you've got a problem with that then keep it to yourself because I certainly don't give a flying fuck about it, and I'm fairly certain that nobody else does either. If you want to press your case, just remember it takes you about a minute or longer to write out and type a post. It takes me 2 seconds to delete it. And I've got a lot more spare time than you.

Here's the new barometer as to whether or not The Postman and I are being too heavy handed. If you think we did something unfair, go tell one of your parents, a girlfriend/boyfriend, or somebody else who has nothing to do with Mapcore. If they don't laugh in your face, then you might have a point. If they stare at you like you might be inbred, then your point is lost.

Now, in my amazing benevolence and desire to foster and open space to talk about this, I'm leaving this thread unlocked for a few days. If you have any logical problems with the forum moderation or would like one of our rules (which I revised today) edited, please mention it. We'll have a polite discussion about it.

Your Overlord,

Fletch

*ahem*. Although i agree with your point, it's being taken too far and besides that i think Posty is quite prejudiced about RD and that led to some unfair judgements. For example, some of the cartoons he posted (along with a constructed opinion) were deleted even though they added to the discussion. I agree that muslim-bashing adds nothing but those pictures were, as far as i can see, not posted for that purpose (alone). I can see how you want the political discussion forum to be something serious but when threads are closed because people write 'ppl' or 'youre' then, in my most humble opinion, it's being taken way too far. Especially because the discussion that was going on was a decent discussion that even got me some new insights.

My suggestions:

1. Forget grammar check completely. One of the polls in this forum showed that two thirds of the forum people are no native english speakers. Go play grammar nazi in a university or high school forum

2. no arrogant attitude and disrespecting comments against people with a different opinion from the moderators. this lets you look stupid in front of the whole community. discussion on irc showed that most people agree with that.

3. Telling people when and for what reason their posts are deleted or censored

P.S. plz dunt dlete.

Thanks Fletch, thanks Posty.

Fletch, you are my new internet hero.

I am sorry but I can't just press enough this matter

Quote from Steppenwolf

3. Telling people when and for what reason their posts are deleted or censored

If you honestly think that punishing people without telling them what you are punishing people for is the right thing to do, you are more misguided than the person itself.

Edit: Dear Kosmo, I edited your post because you spammed the same line 100 times as though that would make a point. It doesn't. Presenting a well thought out arguement makes a point. Also, if you'll notice the thing I just wrote right above your post, you'll see I already talked about that. But hey, thanks for calling me misguided. -Luv Fletch

Quote from Kosmo

I am sorry but I can't just press enough this matter

If you honestly think that punishing people without telling them what you are punishing people for is the right thing to do, you are more misguided than the person itself.

Edit: Dear Kosmo, I edited your post because you spammed the same line 100 times as though that would make a point. It doesn't. Presenting a well thought out arguement makes a point. Also, if you'll notice the thing I just wrote right above your post, you'll see I already talked about that. But hey, thanks for calling me misguided. -Luv Fletch

I meant serious posts not nonsense posts :roll:

Like the arabic pictures of mohamed that i posted to documentate that pictures of him are not only made by danish newspapers.

Quote from Fletch

Ok kids, I get it. Posty is a big mean monster that kills all your posts. Guess what, I do it to. And in regards to the stuff that's been deleted in the last few days, both of us have talked about it previous to it happening. If you're going to be mad at Posty, you might as well be mad at me to. Posty just takes the time to tell you why your posts are gone, and I could care less about your petty feelings.I am not your mommy. Neither is Posty. We don't delete posts where any of you are expressing your viewpoint or engaging in debate. We delete posts where you try to turn this forum into EOT. We delete posts that fuck up the forum software. We delete posts that are way off topic or personal attacks against somebody. If you've got a problem with that, then keep it to yourself because I certainly don't give a flying fuck about it, and I'm fairly certain that nobody else does either. If you want to press your case, just remember it takes you about a minute or longer to write out and type a post. It takes me 2 seconds to delete it. And I've got a lot more spare time than you.

[...]

Your Overlord,

Fletch

What's the point of this whole thread again?

Okay, I'll humour the other persons on this forum then;

This whole thing started when The Postman started deleting posts in a rather hot thread. The discussion was far from over, but as I see it, The Postman saw it as over because his arguments were flawed and everyone weren't seeing the world as he did (from my point of view). And he kinda reminded me of my big brother when he run out of arguments and subconsciousnessly (this is my theory) sees this himself. That makes him pissed off and he lashes out on anything and everyone, participating in the debate, trying to just erase the valid points they make, and therefor making his arguments true in a way (to him). This is both childish and un-objective. Atleast in my opinion. (If that didn't make any sense, just picture the one drunk guy at parties always getting into debates where he himself always think he wins because he always cuts the other person off when that person makes a good arguent. Or screams louder than him, and the other person just gets that expression in his eyes where he just goes "oh god this guy is so stupid, this guy cant be talked to in a normal way").

When that one guy posted using a huge avatar, The Postman could've just gone into his profile and erased the avatar. That approach would've spared him time, actually.

Deleting posts makes the thread really unorganized, since some users will see the posts before they are deleted and some will not, which wont put all the users on equal footing, for one. Not to mention all the posts answering the ghost posts.

If there is anything offensive towards other users on the forum, just delete the words, not the post. If the whole post is something offensive, replace the info with "[user1] is out of arguments and lashes out against [user2] with personal attacks!"

If you guys think this job is so tough that you can't do it properly (The way you've written this post, calling each and everyone else on this forum kids, telling us that you dont give a flying fuck etc clearly tells me that you find your 'job' here annoying. Oh and, who's calling names again?), why dont you get someone else to do it? I know i'd be happy to do it. I'm actually quite good at beeing objective, and I know myself good enough to know when I get upset, and when I get upset I usually stay away. (Thats if I have powers I can abuse).

I've always liked MapCore, and it's members, but The Postmans actions (and yours Fletch, since you are kind enough to share the blame, allthough I'm pretty sure The Postman acted alone and just got your confirmation later (which isnt the same thing)) pissed me off to no end because he messed up one of the first threads in the political forums that I (for once) had taken an interest in and was monitoring closely.

If you are going to police mapcore the way you are doing, please do it right and please make sure the other police officers do it to (The Postman). Maybe some sort of reprimand is in order, for me, he has clearly proven that he has no right to the powers he has. And don't pull the Ace card on me here saying that he has more right than me simply because he knows you in person. That's favoritism and just isn't cool. Once you go telling people to fuck off like that alot of people instantly looses respect for you. If they loose respect for you, they'll change forums.

Political threads shouldnt be touched by moderators that are actively involved with the thread. You guys can take turns, whatever, or get a 3rd guy.

I realize this might be too much to ask for though, so I'll volunteer, I'll never post in the thread or get actively involved in any of the content, I'll just sensur away the name calling and hand out warnings. Seeing as I'm just 20 years old and, by now, probably on your hate-list this won't happen, but it was worth a shot.

Great that you made the thread btw, I've been thinking of making it alot lately. On a final note, i'd like to point out that the first thing you say is that you delete posts too, just like The Postman. How does that justify it?

Quote from Steppenwolf

My suggestions:1. Forget grammar check completely. One of the polls in this forum showed that two thirds of the forum people are no native english speakers. Go play grammar nazi in a university or high school forum

This won't be gone completely and I am pretty damned lenient most of the time. The only stuff that really gets my goad are people that use leet-speak garbage in what are supposed to be (hopefully) intelligent conversations about serious topics.

Quote from Steppenwolf

2. no arrogant attitude and disrespecting comments against people with a different opinion from the moderators. this lets you look stupid in front of the whole community. discussion on irc showed that most people agree with that.

If you post "lol well i thikn that p3rhapz tehre is a moon good that is making teh muszlims go crazy and there religon is bulshit" I'm going to call you out for being dumb. Again, what Fletch said rings true. If you don't like it go tug on the skirt of your mother or otherwise. They'll care just as much as we do.

Quote from Steppenwolf

3. Telling people when and for what reason their posts are deleted or censored

I do this every single time and that's why I'm the big bad wolf. :roll: I even make nice big notices for people to read the rules about when entering this sub-forums. They are stickied at the top of the forums. Please read them

To Posty's defence, i have to say that even people that don't speak English as a first language know the difference between 'ppl' and 'people' and that cases like this were the biggest issue.

Quote from Skjalg

What's the point of this whole thread again?

For discussion about the current state of the forums.

Quote from Skjalg

Okay, I'll humour the other persons on this forum then;This whole thing started when The Postman started deleting posts in a rather hot thread. The discussion was far from over, but as I see it, The Postman saw it as over because his arguments were flawed and everyone weren't seeing the world as he did (from my point of view). And he kinda reminded me of my big brother when he run out of arguments and subconsciousnessly (this is my theory) sees this himself.

I deleted posts from a few people who were only posting large pictures that had little to do with the thread other than perhaps they showed angry Muslims. They weren't arguments or conversations. I said my opinion in that thread and only butted heads with people that weren't doing much more than fanning the flames or just posting huge pictures. If you think I was being bratty go read the thread again. :roll:

Quote from Skjalg

When that one guy posted using a huge avatar, The Postman could've just gone into his profile and erased the avatar. That approach would've spared him time, actually.

Actually I can't do that. I'm only a moderator, not an admin. Next un-informed bitch-point please?

Quote from Skjalg

If there is anything offensive towards other users on the forum, just delete the words, not the post. If the whole post is something offensive, replace the info with "[user1] is out of arguments and lashes out against [user2] with personal attacks!"

Deleting his posts would result in you bitching and a still-fucked-up forums. Come on, use your head.

Quote from Skjalg

I've always liked MapCore, and it's members, but The Postmans actions (and yours Fletch, since you are kind enough to share the blame, allthough I'm pretty sure The Postman acted alone and just got your confirmation later (which isnt the same thing)) pissed me off to no end because he messed up one of the first threads in the political forums that I (for once) had taken an interest in and was monitoring closely.

Fletch and I talk about what to do in the forums before acting. If you're still angry, lo siento, it's not going to change.

Quote from Skjalg

Political threads shouldnt be touched by moderators that are actively involved with the thread. You guys can take turns, whatever, or get a 3rd guy.

Um, no. I go into damned near every thread and look at what's going on, especially if there's a lot of posting (oddly enough I've made changes, not posted what happened, and no one's noticed). That doesn't change if I'm posting in the thread or if Fletch is posting in the thread or if Mikezilla is posting in the thread. If anyone posts something dumb, flaming, or just plain off topic it'll get the chop.

Quote from Skjalg

I realize this might be too much to ask for though, so I'll volunteer, I'll never post in the thread or get actively involved in any of the content, I'll just sensur away the name calling and hand out warnings. Seeing as I'm just 20 years old and, by now, probably on your hate-list this won't happen, but it was worth a shot.

Sorry, not going to happen.

Quote from Skjalg

Great that you made the thread btw, I've been thinking of making it alot lately. On a final note, i'd like to point out that the first thing you say is that you delete posts too, just like The Postman. How does that justify it?

Because sometimes posts are off-topic, flaming, or just lots of pictures in a forums that's supposed to be about serious discussion? We make sure that it flows smoothly. Sorry to anyone for deleting your five 800x600+ collection of angry Muslims burning Israeli flags. :roll:

Quote from The Postman

If you post "lol well i thikn that p3rhapz tehre is a moon good that is making teh muszlims go crazy and there religon is bulshit" I'm going to call you out for being dumb. Again, what Fletch said rings true. If you don't like it go tug on the skirt of your mother or otherwise. They'll care just as much as we do.

See you doing it again. Being arrogant. :roll:

You know as good as me that i haven't argued like that in the mohamed carricatures thread. Still you said i was trolling around and posting random pics that have nothing to do with the discussion, just because you had a different opinion then me. I see things like this as personal insult because i have never experienced such a behaviour from a mod in all the years that im on the internet.

I'm a moderator myself in a 5000 people community and i cant imagine to act so arrogant against community members.

Quote from DaanO

To Posty's defence, i have to say that even people that don't speak English as a first language know the difference between 'ppl' and 'people' and that cases like this were the biggest issue.

The problem is that Obsessive Spellchecking is just one of the problems.

And it also reminds me of my brother who uses this as a technique to throw people off (sorta similar to name calling). He has no arguments left so he starts attacking the person with other things, like grammar mistakes.

If you're so upset about people writing "ppl" instead of, well, people; "If you don't like it go tug on the skirt of your mother or otherwise".

It's time you guys realize that we're not just kids and that our points are valid.

Quote from Skjalg

The problem is that Obsessive Spellchecking is just one of the problems.

Like I said, I let people get away with a lot. Mostly I just get on people for the leet-speak garbage. Mistakes are one thing, heck, even common spelling errors are one thing, but blatant disregard for the English language is another.

Quote from Skjalg

And it also reminds me of my brother who uses this as a technique to throw people off (sorta similar to name calling). He has no arguments left so he starts attacking the person with other things, like grammar mistakes.

I'm sorry about the relationship with your brother.

Quote from Skjalg

If you're so upset about people writing "ppl" instead of, well, people; "If you don't like it go tug on the skirt of your mother or otherwise".

I'm a moderator, I don't have to

Quote from Skjalg

It's time you guys realize that we're not just kids and that our points are valid.

Then act like adults. Post well thought out arguments and have conversations instead of posting long strings of google image search "angry muslim" pics. We let you discuss pretty much anything here, even crazy posts about how supposedly intelligent people believe in haunted houses. You guys get a lot more leniency than I think you really believe you have.

Quote from Steppenwolf

Still you said i was trolling around and posting random pics that have nothing to do with the discussion, just because you had a different opinion then me. I see things like this as personal insult because i have never experienced such a behaviour from a mod in all the years that im on the internet.

In all honesty I'll argue whatever you want any time you want and heck we might even agree on some things, but I won't tolerate flame-bait poorly thought out crap. If you have a post with pictures, I'm not going to take you seriously. If you have a post with a linked website (the more unbiased the better) with facts, stats or articles I'm going to think over your point and consider you a better poster.

Quote from The Postman

For discussion about the current state of the forums.

Guess you missed the red outline I carefully placed in Fletch's thread to point out the irony in this.

Quote from The Postman

I deleted posts from a few people who were only posting large pictures that had little to do with the thread other than perhaps they showed angry Muslims. They weren't arguments or conversations. I said my opinion in that thread and only butted heads with people that weren't doing much more than fanning the flames or just posting huge pictures. If you think I was being bratty go read the thread again. :roll:

Again, I can't stress the fact that your opinion in this matter was severly flawed due to the fact that you were engaged in the debate. Just because you think that a picture has no real argument doesn't make it so. I actually found many of those pictures very describing. More describing than a 1000 words.

Quote from The Postman

Actually I can't do that. I'm only a moderator, not an admin. Next un-informed bitch-point please?

Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot that you probably have no way of talking to an admin and asking him if he could do it.

Quote from The Postman

Deleting his posts would result in you bitching and a still-fucked-up forums. Come on, use your head.

This is what I get for posting a serious soloution to a problem you guys seem to have. And I was actually talking about the other posts you deleted, "Come on, use your head", in my quote there you can clearly see that I'm talking about an incident where [user1] is calling names toward [user2]. Kinda like "Curman is gay" (sorry, but you obviously needed a clear example). You could replace that with "Skjalg is out of arguments and lashes out against Curman with personal attacks!". Got it now?

Quote from The Postman

Fletch and I talk about what to do in the forums before acting. If you're still angry, lo siento, it's not going to change.

Yeah, I get it, you don't care. Again, what's the point of this thread?

Quote from The Postman

Um, no. I go into damned near every thread and look at what's going on, especially if there's a lot of posting (oddly enough I've made changes, not posted what happened, and no one's noticed). That doesn't change if I'm posting in the thread or if Fletch is posting in the thread or if Mikezilla is posting in the thread. If anyone posts something dumb, flaming, or just plain off topic it'll get the chop.

Yes, and you're effeciently avoiding my point. I'm talking about the fact that you probably wont sensur your own posts. Or sensur your own sensuring.The power you have as a moderator gives you the ability to shape the thread after your liking. You can alter anyones post, making it seem that you are the one that has all the valid points. (I'm not saying you did this here). But, what I am saying is that you can do it. Therefor it would be better that someone else, who has no real opinion on the topic of discussion mods the thread. If there is no person like that don't mod the thread at all. If the thread gets out of hand just send out PM's to everyone that don't follow the rules and give warnings. Tell them to edit their own posts (but don't threaten them into it) if necessary.

Quote from The Postman

Because sometimes posts are off-topic, flaming, or just lots of pictures in a forums that's supposed to be about serious discussion? We make sure that it flows smoothly. Sorry to anyone for deleting your five 800x600+ collection of angry Muslims burning Israeli flags. :roll:

yeah, great help, thanks. You're been too constructive, I get it. Im the child here.

Quote from The Postman

Then act like adults. Post well thought out arguments and have conversations instead of posting long strings of google image search "angry muslim" pics. We let you discuss pretty much anything here, even crazy posts about how supposedly intelligent people believe in haunted houses. You guys get a lot more leniency than I think you really believe you have.

In your world, theres just you, the other mods and us, The kids. First of all, we're all different and you cant just think of us as one entity. Second of all; We've actually acted like adults in this whole thread, and (as I've been trying to hint at atleast twice before), you and fletch are the ones acting like immature childs with power gloating over the fact that you have it.

edit; sorry for double post and that I didnt reply to all your answers, but I'ts way past bedtime now.