The faces of Muhammad

IN MY OPINION there's a purpose to these kind of toons. This is really about European muslims learning to use European laws to get what they want. We all know the latest ones are too much, its not really the reason why other countries republish them. Before these ones there were others, PEOPLE get killed over it or go into hiding. Any criticism of Islam is getting pretty dangerous here. If Fred Phelps was beheaded on your streets you would see the problem.

Take it to the court or go demonstrate. If you see your friends in the Middle East doing all this shit, condemn them or go live with them. Not backing up Denmark basically means condemning the authors to death and Denmark into a everlasting world of shit.

edited by Postman. Seriously RD, this isn't IRC. Take the time to write out words, please.

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edited by Postman. Seriously RD, this isn't IRC. Take the time to write out words, please

lol this is lame, i think i know who censored the islamic pics of mohamed that i posted before.

Well this seems obviously not to be the right place to discuss stuff. Im back to eot. CU!

Quote from Steppenwolf

lol this is lame, i think i know who censored the islamic pics of mohamed that i posted before.

Well this seems obviously not to be the right place to discuss stuff. Im back to eot. CU!

You posted a series of pics that had nothing to do with the argument. You weren't answering arguments with anything constructive and you were mindlessly trolling with those pictures. I deleted your posts for those reasons and RD knows full well that I've been on his ass about posting like a 9 year old playing CS for a while now. You can go ahead and post here, but there are rules.

Quote from The Postman

You posted a series of pics that had nothing to do with the argument. You weren't answering arguments with anything constructive and you were mindlessly trolling with those pictures. I deleted your posts for those reasons and RD knows full well that I've been on his ass about posting like a 9 year old playing CS for a while now. You can go ahead and post here, but there are rules.

Seriously i shut up now because if i answer this post adequately i will be banned from mapcore. And thats something that i dont want.

Quote from Steppenwolf

Seriously i shut up now because if i answer this post adequately i will be banned from mapcore. And thats something that i dont want.

Seeing as I have no power to ban, that's not really an option. You can go ahead and post, all I request is intelligent arguments and constructive criticisms. Not trolling pictures or posts.

Posty I agree with your position in this thread. You're repeatedly bringing up propriety though, so somebody's got to do it:

Quote from The Postman

http://www.dictionary.com/ ...

state-run industr...institutionalized it's party philosophy...germanic...after the facr...how their nation's react...because the west should...

I agree that Political Discussion should be conducted in proper English as best we can manage, but please keep in mind that not one of us is infallible and many of us aren't even native speakers.

Quote from The Postman

Seeing as I have no power to ban, that's not really an option. You can go ahead and post, all I request is intelligent arguments and constructive criticisms. Not trolling pictures or posts.

You Sir, really pissing me off! A constructive discussion with you is not possible. You don't accept other arguments, you disrespect other people (me) by calling arguments not intelligent or constructive, you play the grammar nazi card against people who are not native english speakers, you censor comments of other people without telling them and you act childish.

SORRY that my english isn't good enough to find the right words to discuss with you on your "niveau".

The pictures that i posted were pics of mohamed made by muslims! They have very much to do with the discussion since they show much the people in the islamic world overreact.

I wonder wtf is wrong with you. You take position for the radical muslim and do exactly what they want you to do - censor pictures of mohammed and disrespect people with a different opinion. You should be ashamed!

politic is the roots of all evil things in the world

I know what happened to Salman Rusdie RD, i haven't been living in a cave the last 10 years

I just read those verses and all i get from them is that Allah is the only god and that everyone that says otherwise is a liar. Those that choose another path will receive a severe punishment, but it is implied that they will receive it from Allah. This only adds to what i've already read in the Koran and what i already knew, it doesn't say anything about killing converts.

The story is interesting and i believe what he writes about converts these days. The writer of the story is, however, ill informed when it comes to Islams past. As i pointed out earlier, Islam rulers used to be very tolerant towards other religions. Freedom of religion was a custom hundreds of years ago at least. 'Better the tulban than the tiara' was a saying among some groups of Christians in those times because the Islam was more tolerant towards them than their 'fellow' Christians of the Holy Roman Empire. In the Koran (read 1:63) it says that the Jews ( !! ), the Christians and the Sabians that believe in Allah and the Last Day and do good deeds will receive a reward from their Lord and there will be no fear among them and they won't have grief. Proof enough that his claim that Islam has always seen Christians as their enemy, is a false claim. This also makes me doubt his story about these days a little, but because it seems to make sense, i will believe it.

Please point me to a verse that proves that Mohammed decreed that converts are to be killed.

Another interesting point. I do know a Muslim that converted to atheism (i think so, at least), and you know her as well. Her name is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. It's publically known that she converted, yet she was only threatened after she had that silly movie, for insulting Islam and the prophet.

Oh and Posty, freedom of speech has it's limits. It is, for example, forbidden in all Western countries to say things that can lead to violence and i don't think insulting others is allowed in extreme cases either.

Besides that (i don't want to stir things up, do as you please) i am interested in those pictures that Steppenwolf described. If they're not allowed here - i don't see a reason for this but i can accept it - please send through private message, thanks.

Quote from Fletch

...smart on topic stuff...

IAWTP^

Quote from DaanO

I know what happened to Salman Rusdie RD, i haven't been living in a cave the last 10 years

So ask one of your muslim friends what should happen to Salman. I know you got them, unless you live in Urk.

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I just read those verses and all i get from them is that Allah is the only god and that everyone that says otherwise is a liar. Those that choose another path will receive a severe punishment, but it is implied that they will receive it from Allah. This only adds to what i've already read in the Koran and what i already knew, it doesn't say anything about killing converts.

Sharia law isnt the Koran. You asked what was in the koran about converts, and thats about it. The koran has no details on how muslims should live, there are other books for that. Read this

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ISLAMIC LAWThe Sharia or Islamic law is based on four principles or roots (in Arabic "usul", plural of "asl"): the Koran; the sunna of the Prophet which is incorporated in the recognised traditions; the consensus ("ijma") of the scholars of the orthodox community; the method of reasoning by analogy ("qiyas" or "kiyas").

THE KORAN

The Koran, as we saw earlier, is, for Muslims, the very words of God Himself. Though it contains rules and regulations for the early community on such matters as marriage, divorce and inheritance, the Koran does not lay down general principles. Many matters are dealt with in a confusing and perfunctory manner; and a far greater number of vital questions are not treated at all.

THE SUNNA

The sunna (literally, a path or way; a manner of life) expresses the custom or manner of life of Muslims based on the deeds and words of the Prophet, and even that which was done or said in his presence, and which was not forbidden by him. The sunna was recorded in the traditions, the hadith, these are largely later forgeries. Nonetheless, for Muslims the sunna complements the Koran, and is essential for its proper understanding; to clarify the Koranic vaguenesses and fill in the Koranic silences. Without the sunna they would be at a loss for details necessary for their daily lives.

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The story is interesting and i believe what he writes about converts these days. The writer of the story is, however, ill informed when it comes to Islams past. As i pointed out earlier, Islam rulers used to be very tolerant towards other religions. Freedom of religion was a custom hundreds of years ago at least. 'Better the tulban than the tiara' was a saying among some groups of Christians in those times because the Islam was more tolerant towards them than their 'fellow' Christians of the Holy Roman Empire. In the Koran (read 1:63) it says that the Jews ( !! ), the Christians and the Sabians that believe in Allah and the Last Day and do good deeds will receive a reward from their Lord and there will be no fear among them and they won't have grief. Proof enough that his claim that Islam has always seen Christians as their enemy, is a false claim. This also makes me doubt his story about these days a little, but because it seems to make sense, i will believe it.

The koran is contradicting and confusing ofcourse just like the bible. For example 3-118 , 5-51 ,9-29 say basically the opposite.

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Another interesting point. I do know a Muslim that converted to atheism (i think so, at least), and you know her as well. Her name is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. It's publically known that she converted, yet she was only threatened after she had that silly movie, for insulting Islam and the prophet.

As far as i know shes still a muslim. Just against extremism, which is gladly confused with being anti islamic. Why was her movie silly? I didnt really enjoy it because it was boring, but it had a purpose. The koran DOES say to beat women if they dont obey (4:34).

Btw the Danish as well as the Norweigian embassy in Syria were wiped of the face of the earth today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4681294.stm

Quote from The Postman

First off: http://www.dictionary.com

Secondly, the blame is on the dictatorship. It's their fault for how their nation's react and how they foster such sentiment. I

Um yeah Posty. Good job. Before you bitch at others for minor spelling mistakes maybe you want to doublecheck your own spelling.

I told you before but I find your spellchecking edits and whining posts very annoying as they derail whole conversations instead of contributing to them. I don't care if somebody accidently writes "doesnt" instead of "doesn't" as long as the content of the post is contributing to the conversation. Your bitch posts however are not.

[/rant]

As for your argument that it's Denmark's fault that they are hated by muslims now.... I disagree. You can see fundamentalist muslims burning western flags every day. They provocate the west on a daily base and KILL OUR CITIZENS in mindless bombing attacks. Honestly I find that drastically more insulting than a bunch of cartoons printed in some random shitty newspaper.

As mentioned before, the free European press should not be dictated by the minds of fundamentalist religious fanatics and should not apologize in light of the anti-west bullshit that is coming from the Middle East on a daily rate.

[Blocked Image: http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9532/g1yg.gif]

This ones funny But true

Other drawings of Muhammed, dozens by muslims

http://info2us.dk/muhammed/

Interesting read rd. Anyway, my point still stands, the guy that wrote that story doesn't know shit about the history of Islam, sadly. This is what originally got me wondering (and this question hasn't been answered yet), what turned it all around, what cause, what event, when did those laws get instated?

She's still a muslim? My bad. I thought she turned away from it (i remember seeing an episode of Zomergasten with her, i got my impression from those few hours. I'm not confusing anti-extremism with anti islamic by the way, don't worry.

I think the movie was silly not because the movie itself but because of the obvious intent it was made with. If this was to put some topic on the international agenda, wrong fucking way. All it did was insult people and she knew that when she wrote the script, when she made the movie and she still knows it. Insulting people, even if it falls under the freedom of speech, is not the way. Even if it's allowed morally and by law, people should know better. That makes it silly. Besides that i hate how she has only one point to make (which is proven by the fact that she changed parties so easily, the rest of what's going on in politics doesn't matter to her, else there's no way you can switch from PvdA (centre left-wring) to VVD (right wing liberals). I guess i find her silly, close to pathetic and maybe not even so much the movie.

If the Koran tells people to beat women when they disobey, sure put it on the agenda. Doing it this way is not doing it at all.

Quote from DaanO

Interesting read rd. Anyway, my point still stands, the guy that wrote that story doesn't know shit about the history of Islam, sadly. This is what originally got me wondering (and this question hasn't been answered yet), what turned it all around, what cause, what event, when did those laws get instated?

The sharia law is hundreds of years old. Probably over a thousand. No idea when they were made exactly

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If the Koran tells people to beat women when they disobey, sure put it on the agenda. Doing it this way is not doing it at all.

She put quotes from the Koran on a bruised body. If muslims are insulted by it, then they are insulted by the Koran. It was a mirror and maybe the purpose escaped you, but it exposes extremism and basically the same problem danish ppl are having now.

That argument is flawed rd and you know it. Putting Koran verses on a womans naked body changes a lot, they're not insulted by the Koran itself.

I'm not so much interested in when the Sharia law was written, but when it was put in effect. I haven't been able to find anything on the subject yet, but i didn't search well (lack of time, bizar plotchanges in my life right now /emo).

Oh, last news on the cartoon front. AEL will be putting antisemitic cartoons on their website from now on because anti-islamitic cartoons are allowed as well ( ? ). One of the first cartoons:

[Blocked Image: http://www.arabeuropean.org/newsimages/1139021364Scannen06-02-032340%5B2%5D.JPG]

Quote from kleinluka

Um yeah Posty. Good job. Before you bitch at others for minor spelling mistakes maybe you want to doublecheck your own spelling.

I told you before but I find your spellchecking edits and whining posts very annoying as they derail whole conversations instead of contributing to them. I don't care if somebody accidently writes "doesnt" instead of "doesn't" as long as the content of the post is contributing to the conversation. Your bitch posts however are not.

[/rant]

I typoed. At least I'm not writing "people" as "PPL" or "In my opinion" as "IMO." :roll:

Quote from RD

[Blocked Image: http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9532/g1yg.gif]This ones funny But true

Other drawings of Muhammed, dozens by muslims

http://info2us.dk/muhammed/

Yeah, they sure drew Muhammed as a happy little fellow! Totally true, RD!

Since no one seems to be able to actually have an argument or a conversation in this thread without trolling with pictures or calling each other names I'm closing the thread. Yay!