Religion, in its organized form, has always changed at the whims of whomever is powerful enough to make it happen. It is created, written, and organized by man, and will always be skewed and screwed with by man, which is it's flaw.
Quote from TomWithTheWeatherReligion, in its organized form, has always changed at the whims of whomever is powerful enough to make it happen. It is created, written, and organized by man, and will always be skewed and screwed with by man, which is it's flaw.
Which ofcourse presumes that god exists and made religion.
This thread is going nowhere again... 
God never said they went to Limbo, the Vatikan did, and the Vatikan has realized their error and tries to fix it.
Quote from mawibseGod never said they went to Limbo, the Vatikan did, and the Vatikan has realized their error and tries to fix it.
You might want to brush your sarcasm detector there. I didn't mean the subject or the following joke to be taken literally, but since you are here already I believe that you have a good sense of humor.
Quote from SkjalgWhich ofcourse presumes that god exists and made religion.
Huh? I presumed?
Quote from TomWithTheWeatherReligion, in its organized form, has always changed at the whims of whomever is powerful enough to make it happen. It is created, written, and organized by man, and will always be skewed and screwed with by man, which is it's flaw.
Same goes for Science.
Quote from KosmoYou might want to brush your sarcasm detector there. I didn't mean the subject or the following joke to be taken literally, but since you are here already I believe that you have a good sense of humor.
Not trying to lessen your "humor through sarcasm", Just wanted to make sure that no one thought limbo is mentioned in the Bible or anything.
Quote from mawibseNot trying to lessen your "humor through sarcasm", Just wanted to make sure that no one thought limbo is mentioned in the Bible or anything.
I have to take your word for it, since I don't know 
Quote from mawibseSame goes for Science.
Last I checked, rival scientists never got their followers together to invade countries or commit atrocities in the name of string theory or some-such.
Quote from The PostmanLast I checked, rival scientists never got their followers together to invade countries or commit atrocities in the name of string theory or some-such.
Nor is it chaged by one "guys" whim, because it is not based on supposed actions and/or sayings of all powerful being, trying to be the truth.
Scientific front is pretty widespread and ununified to be considered anything like a religion.
Quote from The PostmanLast I checked, rival scientists never got their followers together to invade countries or commit atrocities in the name of string theory or some-such.
...and the next time anyone says otherwise I'll spank them.
Now, if we respond to something the other one actually wrote, this discussion won’t run in all directions at once.
Quote from KosmoNor is it chaged by one "guys" whim, because it is not based on supposed actions and/or sayings of all powerful being, trying to be the truth.
As much scientific research is done on one "guys" whim as the Vatican's decision to change the stance on limbo was.
Quote from KosmoScientific front is pretty widespread and ununified to be considered anything like a religion.
… religion is unified? And not widespread? … you gotta continue that train of thought cause it derailed for me.
how is it a flaw of science?
The same way it's a flaw of religion.
science is science, you cannot just skew the facts here, because if you do that, it will be exposed.. with science itself!!
And all murderers get caught, all thieves locked up and we live happily ever after.
But for us that don't live in fairy tale land, scientific facts get scewed all the time even if some eventually gets exposed.
Just as the Vatikan realised their error on limbo.
Quote from mawibse… religion is unified? And not widespread? … you gotta continue that train of thought cause it derailed for me.
With widespread I didn't mean the actual science, but actually the thought of science, some might believe in gravity, but not in evolution, and so on.
With religion, you either believe one thing and only one thing being an absolute truth, it is the main requirement of being a "believer".
With science, if something doesn't fit, I can just think about it myself, not just accept it as wrong as I see it just because I don't have the balls to actually think different.
Quote from KosmoWith widespread I didn't mean the actual science, but actually the thought of science, some might believe in gravity, but not in evolution, and so on.
Like some believe Jesus is the son of god and some believe he is "just" a prophet?
Quote from KosmoWith religion, you either believe one thing and only one thing being an absolute truth, it is the main requirement of being a "believer".
No it's not. Just as in science we might share an overall common idea but in the details we might have different interpretations.
Like say, if blood transfusion is good or bad according to the bible.
Just because two persons believe in the bible doesnt mean they have the exact same idea of what absolute truth is, thats impossible, there are so much implications of what is mentioned in the bible that goes outside of what it answers. Much is up to individual interpretation.
Quote from KosmoWith science, if something doesn't fit, I can just think about it myself, not just accept it as wrong as I see it just because I don't have the balls to actually think different.
Like I said, missconseption on your part, just because you share a religion with someone doesnt mean your not allowed to think different. Infact youre human so its impossible to not think different.
When the vatikan skews their facts, there are not thousands of other vaticans testing the truth of this.
No? Wonder why they changed their minds then?
When a new scientific discovery is made or an amazing theory devised, academics worldwide will analyse this. Science can only exist with thorough peer reviewing. I don't understand how this compares to religious dogma at all.
Scientific dogmas are peer reviewd just as much as Religious ones, what part dont you understand?
What are you even trying to claim? That science and the dogmatic bullshit religious leader spout are on the same level?
Same level of what?
Peer review, then yes.
Time taken to study issues, then yes.
How long they have existed, then no. Religions have existed longer.
Have rabid followers, then yes.
Being the "truth", then yes.
Trust level. Would you put as much trust in what religion says as you would in science?
Obviously some trusts religions more then science theories and vice versa. How would you meassure this to compare levels?
the same level of truth? Science does not claim it knows the truth at all, it only knows what we can investigate. Religion claims to know the truth but this without using evidence at all.
So one part does not claim to know the truth and the other says it knows the truth but has no evidence... sounds like same level to me.
Science is rooted in fact, which means there is plenty of real, tangible, rational evidence to back it up. It's theories are based on factual evidence. Science is an ongoing thing that strives to understand the world around us. Just because man hasn't yet been able to understand every single little bit of every single little thing, doesn't make it invalid. New things are discovered every day. It's an endless endeavour.
Religion, on the other hand, is based on faith. It's based on the intangible. In the dogmatic versions, it's not open to improvement. In some cases, it requires a person to ignore the rational in favor of faith in something they'll never see. The dangerous part is, many religious people close up their mind so tightly that when something rational or real is thrown their way, they don't even try to see it. You can't teach and old dog new tricks, basically. If somebody chooses to be relgious, they should at least be willing to challenge their own faith with questions and a certain degree of openmindedness. As humans, they owe themselves that and who knows, they may be able to answer some of those questions and become stronger in their faith or, on the flip side, see through it.
the bible is my favorite work of fiction.
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