Dumb Design vs Intelligent design

Once again the thread is filled with ppl who know only the most narrow and religious take on ID.

If life can be intelligent, why is it impossible for it to have control over its own or others design?

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So all who even remotely believe to Intelligent Design, cry to a pillow when you sleep, but keep it out of the facts

The only reason you can count evolution as a fact is because someone found it worthy enough to investigate. Its like ur calling evrybody that believed in evolution before the theory was tested dumb. Intelligent design is worth investigating, even if you have a personal problem with the results

Quote from RD

If life can be intelligent, why is it impossible for it to have control over its own or others design?

If you are referring to things like, humans breeding horses and dogs, then I'd have to agree, some life forms have more control over others, but if you breed an intelligent race, like example, if aliens breeded humans, then there is bound to be some evidence lying around.

Quote from RD

The only reason you can count evolution as a fact is because someone found it worthy enough to investigate. Its like ur calling evrybody that believed in evolution before the theory was tested dumb. Intelligent design is worth investigating, even if you have a personal problem with the results

Nope, it was because evolution was not invented by a crackpot religious wacko trying to convert more people to "the flock", there is not a single meritable scientist investigating on Intelligent Design.

And I'm not saying that it shouldn't be investigated, just don't come to teach it as "fact" to my children before you have gone through some investigation, a theory mere few decades old can hardly be called theory at all.

And I have nothing against the results, if they find that mankind is the spawn of some superior alien race it would only be good for mankind, unless ofcourse they breeded us to be food or something nasty like that.

If they made a breakthrough that man was actually some weird lab test done by some aliens maybe then we'd get rid of these religious crackpots and scammers.

Listen to Kosmo, ppl. He has some good points here.

RD, how can we "investigate" ID? At this point it has to remain faith-based. I mean, we have SETI and such, there is some effort to look for extraterrestrials. Sure they could use more money but what else can we do?

Kosmo I'm still pretty unclear what you're trying to get across.

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Evolution doesn't necessary happen on it's own, after dinosaurs vanished as a quirk of universe, humans became the next-gen (if you will) and it had absolutely nothing to do with natural selection.

OF COURSE it did. The dinosaur extinction is one of the great demonstrations of natural selection.

There was a massive catastrophe that utterly changed the global climate. These things happen. Huge lumbering dinosaurs were unsuited to the new, devastated climate and ecology. Small warm-blooded mammals were better suited and so they survived, reproduced, and eventually the planet got better. Millions of years later humans evolved.

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a theory mere few decades old can hardly be called theory at all.

heheh get a little perspective. Evolution is only like 150 years old. People have known about Creation for thousands of years

here, have a chuckle: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27604

Quote from ginsengavenger

Kosmo I'm still pretty unclear what you're trying to get across.

Well, tell me what is it what I said is so unclear and I will unravel it's mysteries to you, altho, holistic medicine and intelligent design, most part philosophical, doesn't need any gifts or such to be clear, they are mere observations, don't you think?

Quote from ginsengavenger

RD, how can we "investigate" ID? At this point it has to remain faith-based. I mean, we have SETI and such, there is some effort to look for extraterrestrials. Sure they could use more money but what else can we do? Kosmo I'm still pretty unclear what you're trying to get across.

heheh get a little perspective. Evolution is only like 150 years old. People have known about Creation for thousands of years

Little perspective? So you are saying that things that happened millions of years ago are earlier than the bible? Or are you implying that this part was in the bible: "Hear me speak the words of god, the great intelligent designer, thy theory ofcourse mind you, but I THINK that god or some sentient being came here and made man and a woman, forgot to tell us about the dinosaurs, and then he rested on the sevent day, what a jolly good fellow he was", take my word, they didn't think it as a "theory" back then

And while I speak about ID, I don't refer only to Genesis, I refer to all the cooky creationism theories where some god or what ever, legomen, transformers and captain kirk created man as their image and so on and so on.

Modern ID theory isn't that old, and while it borrows alot of things from the modern evolution theory, you know, the one that is less than the 150 years old, my guess is that ID actually is maximum of 40 years old, what people say it is based on is beyond me, they could say that it is older than the humankind, the word itself comes straight from Santa, brought to us by Easter bunny and Carebears.

Sorry, your posts are just difficult for me to follow, kind of train-of thought stuff. Don't worry too much

Let's be clear here. Intelligent Design is half-assed pseudoscience dreamed up by Creationists. It only asks questions and provides no answers. Its ONLY use is to drive a wedge into the public education system. Their goal is to get people teaching Creationism in schools. This is flatly absurd and cannot be allowed.

Seems to me that "Intelligent Design" is a term that was applied to creationism in the last couple of years to make it sound more marketable to the scientific community.

Further, it seems like the sudden use of "Intelligent Design" rather than "Creationism" implies, IMHO, that someone in the creationism camp hired a marketing consultant to find a better way to get their message out.

Obviously I am speculating wildly, but that's just the flavor of this whole debate that I'm getting that there is such zeal/furvor behind creationism on some people's parts that they will go to great lenghts to convert, er convince, you.

I dunno...not sure what I'm trying to say except the arguements and methods of arguing used by ID proponents gives me this feeling like they are trying to convert me or sell me or shill me or just something that says underneath it all they don't give a shit about my personal opinion as long as I adopt their view.

I get the same feeling when I hear much of the furvor coming from people arguing the 'pro-life' side of the abortion debate.

Anyway, I have digressed off topic.

Im just taking the broadest definition of the theory intelligent design, and not the one hijacked by religions. Intelligent design simply means intelligent design, with no conclusion on what designed what and how.

I guess we were all talking about diffrent things then. I should have clicked the link to see it was about adam being planted on earth 5000 years ago

Quote from ginsengavenger

Sorry, your posts are just difficult for me to follow, kind of train-of thought stuff. Don't worry too much

Don't worry about it, I'm even cryptic to myself.

Quote from RD

Im just taking the broadest definition of the theory intelligent design, and not the one hijacked by religions. Intelligent design simply means intelligent design, with no conclusion on what designed what and how. I guess we were all talking about diffrent things then. I should have clicked the link to see it was about adam being planted on earth 5000 years ago

Not in America. In America it means religious right Christian evangelical beliefs. Nothing more.

It's kinda like the growing earth thing, Bush spends insane amounts of money to prove that there were deep oceans around over 200 million years ago, even if there is almost air tight proof that there wasn't. Earth was smaller back then and dinosaurs lived in smaller gravity, one of the reasons why they were so big.

Universe and everything grew apparently from nothing which is nice to know

Steven Spielberg used his vast fortune to build a time machine so he could go back and make it look like there were Dinos so he and Michael Critchton could make a fuckton outta Jurassic Park.

Which is about as plausible a theory as intelligent design. So there.

Quote from mawibse

I'm sure the plausibility of a theory is judged by... a banjo player???Well suck me senseless but I think it's more plausible that intelligent life can create new life then that you can build a time machine that can transport you hundreds of million of years back and forth in time.

Not nessesarily the religious right Christian evangelical kinda intelligent life though..

You just have to BELIEVE.

Quote from Pericolos0

its obvious only the supernatural powers of an intelligent god could have caused the big sizes of dinosaurs in this hostile high gravity enviroment.

...and then put them on Noah's Ark, right? Or did they die in the Floods

what the hell is going on in here?