Dumb Design vs Intelligent design

didnt we have this discussion before

Anyways, dna is really too intelligent to b dumb.

Quote from mawibse

And why does intelligent design rule out evolution and vice versa? Darwin thought that evolution was the tool of an intelligent design.

I can’t be the only one thinking that DNA seems to be a pretty clever thing to spontaneously appear?

bingo. I believe unwaveringly that evolution is the process by which all species have become what they are today, starting with that first spark of life in the muck way back when. How that muck sparked life, I haven't heard a good answer to in a long time.

I wouldn't have much of a problem with ID being mentioned in schools if they would approach it with a little more thought and modesty. What they're doing is presenting it, in science classrooms, as an outright and exclusive alternative to the scientific process.

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District policy requires school administrators to read a statement before classes on evolution that says Charles Darwin's theory is "not a fact" and has inexplicable "gaps."

Both of those quoted statements are false and misleading. The problem is that ID proponents only want to use it as a wedge to bring outright discussions about God and Creation into schools and even worse, into science classrooms. I'd bet hard money that most of them don't even understand evolution.

Many of these kids are so dumb already (remember this is the American education system), they're already bewildered by the complexity of evolution and this will give them an excuse not to pay attention when they should be learning about it. They're going to believe the easiest solution even if it doesn't hold water. I don't want any seed of doubt planted in their little brains about the scientific method - their parents and preachers can do that well enough on their own time.

Evolution can be taught in science courses, intelligent design can be taught in religion courses. Whats so hard to understand about this? As far as the evidence in the matter is concerned, intelligent design is a religious theory, not a scientific one.

In religion and social studies courses they teach kids about various religions - they don't teach religious belief as fact which is what the ID people want. The only religious fact courses are at private religious schools, which is where these people should be sending their kids if that's what they want them taught.

Quote from Lurker

Evolution can be taught in science courses, intelligent design can be taught in religion courses. Whats so hard to understand about this? As far as the evidence in the matter is concerned, intelligent design is a religious theory, not a scientific one.

Its not necessarily religious, unless u call evrything intelligent in space god. If there was some intelligent design in our DNA, its not necessarily created by a god. We could be the genetically manipulated children of the Annunaki .

Quote from RD

Its not necessarily religious, unless u call evrything intelligent in space god. If there was some intelligent design in our DNA, its not necessarily created by a god. We could be the genetically manipulated children of the Annunaki .

Intelligent design as most want it taught is inherently religious.

Well, Man has dabbled with many things in the world, changed the course of species and natural selection, so I'd say that Intelligent design is true from about 15th century and up.

Intelligent Design has no place in a science classroom or a science curriculum because...

INTELLIGENT DESIGN ISN'T SCIENCE.

It's just a not-so-sneaky attempt to inject evangelicalism into our public school systems. Read the Discovery Center's website sometime and look at their 15 year goals. They want religious schools, not science. They want their brand of religion as the official law of the land. They are essentially the American Taliban in waiting.

Quote from RD

didnt we have this discussion before Anyways, dna is really too intelligent to b dumb.

So obviously God needs to be in the gaps of knowledge we haven't figured out yet. Yes, that's honest science and patently without fault. :sarcasm:

Quote from mawibse

My point exactly!

It didn't spontaneously appear. It was the action of millions upon millions of generations of self replicating amino acids and RNA before mutation and good old evolution found another way to do things that just happened to allow "better" reproduction.

It's beyond me how people can just think that "some outside force must have created life since it is so complicated", what part of the "hundreds of millions of years of evolution" don't they get? Besides, there are species that "evolve" almost every generation and have severe mutions with the slightest complication like radiation and genetic mixing.

Why is it so totally fucking impossible for something to happen when millions of years have passed? Todays average human has way better immunity levels than average person from 1900s, and that my friend is changed by medicine, food and well, constant bombardment of diseases over the course of decades, it is a small change but a change non the less, and all that happened in one hundred year span, now take away the medicine and add one million years, I'm fucking positive that there is bound to be big changes there.

So all who even remotely believe to Intelligent Design, cry to a pillow when you sleep, but keep it out of the facts.

Quote from Kosmo

and all that happened in one hundred year span

you only have antibiotics and globalization to thank for that

Quote from ginsengavenger

you only have antibiotics and globalization to thank for that

But still, we didn't forcibly alter our genetic makeup (not saying that antibiotics are in out genes, but the immunity to certain diseases are), the antibiotics made it for us, and all medicines we take either kills the disease OR mutates it to a new one, which is evolution, simple and all.

what is your point?

My point is that evolution is something that just doesn't "happen" there are millions of variables to take in consideration, and I think, most of those who believe in ID think that evolution is some magic that just happens without any outside interfearence, like geological anomalities where some big bad predator can get in to a place where the original fauna has never been threatened and so on.

And it seems like they don't count that evolution is even happening this day and age, we can't consider it NOT to be evolution that the medicines that we produce, have certain effects to our physiology, even if it is from man made drug, the genetic effects that occur maybe few hundred years down the line in some generation is actually evolution.

so you're trying to reconcile natural selection with the "unnatural" selection that we as sentient human beings are imposing upon ourselves and our environment?

It was just one example. If you want another example that doesn't involve humans doing things on their own, then take the meteorite that supposedly killed dinosaurs for an example, where is the natural selection there? Or do you consider a meteorite as the ultimate predator.

What I said, was just an example of how things evolve, and the "ID must be true because DNA/Eye/'your favourite complex thing here' is so complicated that it couldn't have just happened, there must have been some higher power guiding the so called evolution".

Evolution doesn't necessary happen on it's own, after dinosaurs vanished as a quirk of universe, humans became the next-gen (if you will) and it had absolutely nothing to do with natural selection. It would go closer to chaos theory of everything is just a random act, but even then, it doesn't over rule evolution, it's just a theory that acts with evolution, not against it, but still it changed a big part of it ot seem like some higher power would have had something to do with it, just like with DNA and such.