de_sillar (WIP)

Hi all,

I am new to Mapcore and relatively new to mapping. However I have always been fascinated with architecture (my first word was roof, which still sounds strange to me today) and I have found a hobby in using the SDK editor. I by no means expect an amazing final product to this map I am starting to work on, especially given I have no knowledge of making custom assets so I will be relying on what is available. However for now I will give you the idea behind my map as well as a gallery of pictures I am using for inspiration. For now all you need to know is the idea is to have a fun, fast paced competitively viable cs-go map made in however long it takes to get there (probably will still be here updating in a decade knowing me.)

Why Sillar?

In 2020 I was watching a series called "Race Across the World". In this series pairs have to try and make it from one location to another in the least possible time with limited resources such as money. The second series was a race through Latin America and in one particular episode one of the pairs went to a city in Peru named Arequipa. The architecture and in particular the white materials used to build much of the historical center caught my eye immediately, and upon further research I found that this material used in much of Arequipa is called Sillar, a type of rhyolite that was formed over centuries from volcanic activity in the region's nearby volcanoes. At some point I intend to make custom textures based on Sillar but that is a long way off considering I haven't yet even come up for a map design.

What notable features do I want my map to have?

One feature I would like is fast rotates, I am not a huge fan of Nuke but I liked how the incredibly fast rotates made the map harder to learn but more rewarding for those who mastered it like Astralis. Another feature I want is a unique middle, I do not want a middle of the form seen for example on Dust 2 or Mirage. I want a system in which the counter terrorists maybe dedicate 1 player to each site but there are opportunities to push forward and take map control like on Overpass, and the middle section would somehow be split into multiple connectors. The idea is that it would be quite easy for counter terrorists to hold the bombsites at first however if they loose control over middle it becomes incredibly hard to go for a fast retake and CTs will either be forced to take longer rotates through spawn areas or take loads of risks going through open courtyards and streets. I also want to utilise sound as much as possible - quicker routes to sites or certain regions of the map might come with the trade-off that you make sound-queues. I also want a good mix of one way drops, wall bang spots, fair boost spots and water elements. I think having a sky box with the volcanoes that surround Arequipa in the background would also add something to the map. In general, I also want to utilise elevation and geometry to the greatest extent possible - I don't want to fill the map with generic crates, I want the angles to come naturally from the map's design and in doing this I will probably save myself a lot of work later on. I also want to experiment with lighting a lot, since it always seems to be left unused in many maps to its full potential.

Image Gallery

Since I haven't yet got a map design, I will share some inspirational photos I found of Arequipa, I would like in some way to include the Plaza de Armas and the nearby Cathedral but I will try to avoid copying things from real life, and merely take inspiration from the architecture:

Spoiler

Famous Cathedral that would serve as a recognizable landmark in the map, potentially one of the bombsite although I prefer to keep them outside.

Yeah... definitely going to need custom props!

This place looks like it was made for CS, they even have an area with a crate for cover already!

White will be the main theme of the map but there will be vibrant areas as in the real Arequipa. Similar in a way to Inferno.

The kind of entrances I will have into courtyards and such.

I love these pillars, my only concern from a gameplay point of view is that with too many, there would be far too many off-angles.

I definitely want a tile pattern like the one here.

They even added an Inferno fountain for good measure...

This is probably ambitious for a first map, however I intend to get as much fun out of the process as possible and share it with others along the way!

Update 29/01/22

Hi all I am back after a little break, I recently decided to start drawing some ideas for map layouts and this is what I came up with:

As you can see some of my original ideas have been scrapped, however I am still happy with a lot of ideas here. I know the map is quite complicated but through play-testing with bots once I have it in bsp I can make the necessary changes. Please bear in mind this is obviously not to scale and I will have to adjust for rotate times and such!

One thing I tried to take advantage of was a series of loops to make the gameplay more fluid, something that Overpass inspired me to do. For example, the area around B Short, CT Mid and Mid could play quite interestingly if Terrorists gain control of this area, as they will have a chance to cut off rotates.

Some other thoughts / ideas I had:

1. The pathway through T halls means that if Counter Terrorists try to get aggressive at B Long they will have to contest multiple angles at once. It should also be slightly faster to go B via this route.
2. T mid has 2 entrances, which allows for Terrorists to swing on certain positions from different angles.
3. The left side of T mid takes you onto a catwalk like Mirage, the right side consists of Archways like the Yanahuara mirador. Terrorists can get to the cover next to connector faster by jumping through these arches but will be exposed when they fall down.
4. The small hut on B may be removed at some point. The idea is you can focus solely on Upper from there but the walls would be thin allowing wall-bangs.
5. Back alley features a one way drop that allows CTs on retake to get cover behind the crates. From here there is a window through which you cannot see enemies but it would be possible to throw grenades onto B site (molotov / flashbang, etc)
6. A ladder can be used to get onto Upper but it is exposed to a window.
7. The bottom right corner of A site is designed for CTs to buy time on an execute by maneuvering about the two entrances, it would also be a powerful spot in retakes.
8. I have designed T spawn so that in the future when I know the timings I can move the spawn forward if need be.
9. As mentioned above, control of mid is really important for rotates, especially as there is lots of options for the terrorists. In an A execute a lurker could easily stay around B long then flank mid rotates, and so on.
10. Possible scenario for CTs would be to play 1 player on B site / close to upper, one player at B short who can help both middle and on a B execute, One player Mid / CT mid, they can choose to play more passively with support from the short player or go more aggressive so the short player can focus more on B site, One player around Connector and the last guy can be the A hold.
11. Terrorist side is all about map control, they need to get players into upper for a B take realistically, and mid control is really powerful.

Please do let me know your ideas on this so far, I will try and bear in mind suggestions once I get to blocking out the map. I have exams to think about soon but I will try to keep this project moving a bit faster and certainly after May/June I will have lots of time to spare!

Update 30/01/22[/u]

Before I get started blocking the map out over the next week or so, I decided that based on my map's geometry I would need to learn to use the vertex tool which surprising I had never utilised before. In particular, several staircases on the layout are at a 45-degree angle, hence I decided to make a test layout to practice before hand. I will likely be using this same, small level in the near future to acquire other skills I do not yet have, etc. I am happy with my end results, as long as I keep it simplified I can make the stairs without any difficulty and this will help the map feel less "square" and more like a real place. And of course the tool is useful for small details I will implement in the future (archways etc.) Anyway here are some screenshots of what I was able to get done fairly quickly:

Spoiler

Another vital skill I will learn with this soon is how to make a functioning radar image. I tried on another of my maps, de_Salette, however it ended up way too small / didn't work properly! Also just to clarify, from the first image you can tell the stairs are at an angle because of the way the floor texture is aligned.

Update 13/02/22

Hi all, I am back again after a couple of weeks and plans have changed. I managed to block out the B side of the map but it just didn't feel right, and I felt like in particular the bombsites I had drawn were not all that inspiring and lacked imagination. So I scrapped the idea and came up with some improvised ideas for the A side of the map to work on. I also took the opportunity to try and build the theme of my map in a bit.

This area is inspired by Banana on Inferno and Bathrooms on Overpass. I wanted an area CTs could push into to gain map control in front of the bombsite. It would be incredibly important for map control as you have to come through this "banana" section or use a one way drop making a sound queue to get to this area (the one way drop has not been added but would be on the left side of the main arch from this perspective.) There will also be a mid connector route making for 3 entrances onto the A bombsite. The layout is not finalized (and there will not be this random crate from nuke, I just added it while having fun.) To make the number of angles to clear more manageable for terrorists I boarded up the first archway, but they can still boost over it to gain a sight-line. It is not particularly useful at the moment but once I start blocking out the actual cover for CTs it may provide a powerful angle against some spots. The wood is highly wall bangable and there are some pretty simple flash lineups that will be designated by props (if you as a CT go to the right-side pillar of the main arch, you can easily bank a pop flash off of the wall to blind people in the indoors area.) In practice I am unsure how this area will play, however what I hope is that there will be a big utility battle here to gain control such as on inferno, and constant changes in meta (pushes boosts etc.)

I was also working on this little experiment which was meant to be a snow themed map, however I may incorporate the mid layout in some way into Sillar. I am still not sure how this area will look, and most likely it will continuously change over development. In the original design I really liked the "loop" around mid, CT mid and B short, so I would like to keep that idea in some capacity, though I am not sure how. In the very least I was able to use this to remember the basics of using displacement geometry to create changes in elevation.

So in summary:

1. I have completely scrapped my plans for B as its a mess, although I intend to keep the spawn theme of a bridge with a river.
2. I still want to have a sort of "loop" in mid that allows for flanks, but I dont want it to get too complicated for now and will start out with a more basic design.
3. I've completely reworked the flow of the A bombsite, not only will the site itself look different but I want more emphasis on map control.
4. I am trying already to build the theme of the map into the architecture, hence "banana" with its archways for example.

It will probably take a while for me to update you on my progress now, I'm heading towards exams so I will mostly just experiment with ideas and try to come up with something for the summer, at least then I will have a map to play test rather than a bunch of ideas and nothing in practice!

More photo inspiration

I have returned today with some more photo inspiration, which should help me build the theme of the map more into the layout, I already have some great plans for the layout of the A bombsite. I think the Spanish Colonial architecture will fit really nicely into the map and the vibrant colors should make visibility good once I have some textures / props in place. In the mean time here are said photos:

I am thinking of incorporating this design into the layout of my A bombsite, most likely as an entrance with an arched wall on the right to separate sight from staging area allowing grenades to pass over. Not sure how I am going to deal with boosts here however as they would probably be extremely overpowered!

This one reminds me a lot of Inferno and I am not sure why?!

The kind of house design that will be common along streets

This one is the kind of design I will look to have in negative spaces in the map, to add to the theme but not gameplay.

Another courtyard area, perhaps nice for a bombsite or spawn area

Just some more inspiration for the general architecture of the level

I am really looking forward to getting to work on this now, these images were just what I needed as I now have a much better idea of how to approach making key areas such as choke points and bombsites (whereas before I was scratching my head figuring out how that massive cathedral in Arequipa could be a bombsite, now it will most likely just be a landmark on the map.)

Updated map-flow ideas

I decided today I was ready to redesign a layout overview as a starting place. I reworked some bits I liked from the old layout into the design but a lot has changed. For starters I changed the layout of the map to be at an angle to try and add some variety. Doing this also allowed me to simplify the layout of the terrorist spawn, the pathing to choke points should be faster and not deviate randomly like in previous versions:

In the future I should use pencil so I can rub errors out! It does show a change in direction though, I simplified the route towards B out of T spawn which should be easier to work with.

Some notes:

1. Curved pathway at T leads along a river like in canals.
2. I forgot to mark on the contact points but they should be: where the longer B route deviated from the shorter one, middle (you may recognize this from the previous layout but at an angle), and at the "banana" area leading to A which I showed a concept for earlier. Also note there is an extra long route to take map control before hitting A but there is a one way drop meaning that Cts would have to boost to get a player here, while terrorists will make a drop sound if they try to bypass the other route.
3. there are two entrances to mid for the Terrorists and 3 for the CTs.
4. There are still areas that can be simplified depending on the timings once this is blocked out. The Ct route into B could be more direct, as could the CT route into A. It will be especially important to figure out the timing so that CTs can get aggressive in "Banana" and ahead of the B bombsite, but not so much so that it becomes too difficult for Terrorists to take map control. They will have the weaker timings but the advantage in engagements here, with elevation and cover benefiting them more once it is added.
5. I tried to make sure there is enough negative space in-between routes so that you can't hear footsteps as clearly from across the map.

I will try to get this in the editor as quickly as possible and share the timings / how the map feels so far, hopefully this week. It will also be the first opportunity to break the map and find overpowered sight-lines that need to be fixed, I often find that non-existent angles in the map drawings creep up in the actual thing. I can already see the possibility of an angle from mid to the CT spawn rotate, between A and B, which may require me to change the angle at which CTs enter mid in the first place.

Last night I also downloaded the inferno map files that 3kliksphilip made available. I did this because I can:

1. study the way Valve makes their maps, and hence hopefully learn techniques that I never would have known in map making. Particularly optimization is a big one.
2. Work out the dimensions that work, Inferno is my favorite map so I want the gameplay to feel very similar, and in the past I have struggled to get the dimensions to work properly. I also will likely end up using the inferno textures / models for the final version, until I have learnt how to create custom models / textures at which point I can return to finish the project.

Anyways that is probably all I have to add today, unless I am able to get the layout done by this evening.

Progress so far (sorry that its so small, but should be easy to make out everything. The props are archways / pillars I added to Banana to make sure it was in proportion as it will be a pain to change later on) :

Dimensions so far: height 3500units (will be 4000 once CT spawn is added) and 3700 units across (roughly what it will be in the final version I expect.)

Update 15/02/22

Hi all, I am back after a few hours of editing and I have the route layout for Sillar made with a few changes along the way.

Spoiler Screenshot of the layout:

Some rough timings that I got from just running around looking at the clock:

CT > B ~ 8s, 11s to the staging area outside B

T > B ~ 14s, 11s to the staging area outside B

CT > Mid ~ 9s (11 for the connectors)

T > Mid ~ 10s

CT > A ~ 5s (9s to the staging area and 11s to peak the upper area of banana

T > A ~ 15s (10s to the staging area, which means that CTs can cross if they have a good spawn but Terrorists with a good spawn can already be holding the angle at upper. I tested some easy run flash lineups a team mate could throw to force a player off this angle though.) Both sides also meet at the curved path next to Banana.

The significance of these timings means:

1. counter terrorists have an advantage at middle (however could easily be smoked off of the main angles)
2. terrorists have a slight advantage outside of B, however CTs can throw a smoke to block off the secondary route to the B staging area and focus their attention on any terrorists approaching via the path with stairs.
3. counter terrorists have a slight advantage at Banana but have to be aware that with a really good spawn a terrorist can post on the upper hallway, meaning that CTs need a flash or some sort of utility to block this sight line if they wish to cross or push forward.

There are still significant changes to make no doubt, but I am satisfied that I have fixed already most of the broken long angles, but I have to add basic walls / buildings to the map before I can make a better assessment on that. Anyway pretty happy with how the timing are, at first Ts were worryingly quick to Banana but I added a wall you have to jump over which delays them enough to fix this. A site i know roughly what I am aiming for, a courtyard with an upper section / stairs the Ts can come down and another entrance via a building I posted an image of earlier, but I really have no clue what B will look like so expect massive changes in the near future!

Quote from hgn

10 hours ago, hgn said: looks like a nice design, get some walls on it and test :]

I wouldn't worry too much about fine timings or how the utility works just yet; most important to make the spaces feel natural in size and proportion, which can be misleading to gauge this without the vertical bits in place

Yes, I haven't finished it yet but I already discovered that, with a low wall near the A bombsite, Terrorists on the raised hallway with all the arches could see over it into the bombsite and to the CT entrance into the bombsite, already had to rethink these entrances, add some more walls to remove this sight line but even then it potentially needs a rethink as they can still see onto the bombsite! I also realised I was a bit careless in some places and brushes are not entirely connected to the grid, so I need to go back through and find where the problem started so I can fix it. The other things I have noticed is that the sites feel too small, and there are certain areas such as between mid and "banana" that seem so small I cannot figure out how I would separate them (as it is, looks too narrow for any building.)

Spoiler OP sight-line into the A bombsite from the staging area. Note the invisible walls on the house to the right will obviously be covered up soon!

Hi Guys,

I hid the original thread and I can't find how to bring it back (if its even possible) so here's a new thread ?.

I had some progress going on a really nice bombsite I made for B, however unfortunately I hadn't started version control yet and my power went down while I was working on it (storm here in the UK at the moment) so I lost all my progress. Shouldn't matter too much as I will be able to remake everything quite soon. Also I was very proud of myself watching a 2 minute long 3kliksphilip tutorial on creating custom textures and managing to create my first one, a stone wall for sillar:

Hopefully it doesn't get much more complicated than this!

Quote from CacouQ

2 hours ago, CacouQ said: Hi Guys,

I hid the original thread and I can't find how to bring it back (if its even possible) so here's a new thread ?.

I had some progress going on a really nice bombsite I made for B, however unfortunately I hadn't started version control yet and my power went down while I was working on it (storm here in the UK at the moment) so I lost all my progress. Shouldn't matter too much as I will be able to remake everything quite soon. Also I was very proud of myself watching a 2 minute long 3kliksphilip tutorial on creating custom textures and managing to create my first one, a stone wall for sillar:

Hopefully it doesn't get much more complicated than this!

aha thanks to the moderator or whoever it was who fixed this issue