Not strictly related, but awesome video.
6:48 thoughts on corporate ladder creating monotony in mapping
most of the vid shows his design process for aw maps if you are interested
Renamed this thread.
I got closed beta access and boy do I have problems:
1. All automatic weapons have a single spray pattern between them.
2. Armor works the same against all weapons, meaning there aren't tactical decisions you make based on your opponents economy.
3. Cosmetics that change players death animation are very distracting and shouldn't be in the game.
4. The maps feel incredibly bland because everything is on grid, and all the walls and crates are the same 64u scale.
5. There is very little synergy between each hero, making the game be more about solo play then working with your team.
6. This is my biggest issue with Valorant, I feel like the heroes take away the freedom a player has in CS. If you want to do trick jumps, you HAVE to play Jett/Raze. If you want to lurk behind the enemy, you HAVE to play Omen. This especially noticeable in the way Volcano talks about Jett. The inspiration comes from pro CS players who got really good at movement, so they made a character that allows you to copy those cool plays with one ability. (Meanwhile, the map design makes it so that only Jett is able to get to those places, because the map is to clean to allow for any other characters to do a trick jump.) On a basic level, I would say that CS encourages players to forge their own unique play style through discovery, while Valorant forces players to put themselves into one of 10 specific categories.
Overall, the game is like CS:GO with the skill floor dropped substantially down. The remaining question is how high the skill ceiling will go, which will most likely determine the games success as an e-sport.
P.S. Sorry for the long rant.
46 minutes ago, DMU222 said: I got closed beta access and boy do I have problems:
1. All automatic weapons have a single spray pattern between them.
2. Armor works the same against all weapons, meaning there aren't tactical decisions you make based on your opponents economy.
3. Cosmetics that change players death animation are very distracting and shouldn't be in the game.
4. The maps feel incredibly bland because everything is on grid, and all the walls and crates are the same 64u scale.
5. There is very little synergy between each hero, making the game be more about solo play then working with your team.
6. This is my biggest issue with Valorant, I feel like the heroes take away the freedom a player has in CS. If you want to do trick jumps, you HAVE to play Jett/Raze. If you want to lurk behind the enemy, you HAVE to play Omen. This especially noticeable in the way Volcano talks about Jett. The inspiration comes from pro CS players who got really good at movement, so they made a character that allows you to copy those cool plays with one ability. (Meanwhile, the map design makes it so that only Jett is able to get to those places, because the map is to clean to allow for any other characters to do a trick jump.) On a basic level, I would say that CS encourages players to forge their own unique play style through discovery, while Valorant forces players to put themselves into one of 10 specific categories.
Overall, the game is like CS:GO with the skill floor dropped substantially down. The remaining question is how high the skill ceiling will go, which will most likely determine the games success as an e-sport.
P.S. Sorry for the long rant.
I don't have access myself, but honestly I'm heartened by every negative response it gets. Everything about the game, from its initial concept and its marketing to the apparent lack of a level editor screams boring corporate greed to me. I'm especially relieved about point 6 above, as that confirms one of my initial problems with the concept and will hopefully ensure that CS:GO's player-base won't be disappearing anytime soon. I think it's great that Volcano got a well deserved level designer position on such a big title but at the same time, as somebody who once had aspirations in the same direction I can't help but feel like he's sold out -- the only comfort I take is that I'm sure he doesn't have the clout to make Riot release an editor, but I hope he's equally dismayed by their oversight.
Quote from text_fish2 hours ago, text_fish said: apparent lack of a level editor
This one was a real puzzler. The rest of the game looks pretty solid, but with the maps they currently have, it seems like they need the community to create for them. The community is special in that they avoid the "corporate ladder" and approval process, so everything goes. The maps can be wild and adventurous with nothing on the line.
I have seen this story in many games now: 1. New competitive game advertised to be made by competitive game lovers to competitive game lovers. 2. Couple months after launch, new heroes start dropping. 3. Real balance updates start giving away to new hero dropping: Either full-on new heroes with no rebalance like Overwatch or everything gets rebalanced every 2 weeks to keep the game from being stale like in Rainbow Six Siege. 4. Therefore game loses all competitive integrity and becomes a Dota/LOL type of game with constant updates: If you cannot keep up with the updates, the game becomes unplayable. Also each hero has to be individually unlocked, so if you do not play or rather pay constantly, then you can't play the game competitively. 5. Basically, the game is no longer akin to a sport but more to a live service app like WoW. Because of this, the game's competitive community cannot stay alive without prize pools given by the company, which gets its money from people buying the heroes or skins. This means the game cannot stay alive without constant updates adding more heroes and skins. Look at something like Counter Strike 1.6, Starcraft or Super Smash Bros Melee, 20+ year old games which are the classics with no updates that are still played competitively. These are what most would consider esports. Do not get tricked into the live-service model just because it tries to steal the legacy of the classics not with competitive prowess, but by pulling part of it's revenue into competition prize pools and becoming a live-service model nobody can take as seriously as the classics it tries to replace. Live-service competitive game. Such a great little scam, because people aren't wise enough to avoid it yet.
My personal prediction is that Valorant will be similar to Overwatch in how the game feels. Itll feel good with quirks for the first 6 months or so, then itll be really good for about a year, then the constant cycle of needing to add a new map or hero every other month to appease the hyper side of the playerbase will takes it tole on gameplay until even the biggest fans and pro players think its gone to full shit.
Ideally Riot would learn from Overwatch, but it doesnt seem that way. Im also not looking forward to the ultra pander cosmetics they seem to be hinting at, having death animation cosmetics is a low bar thats now been set.
Quote from Interfearance19 hours ago, Interfearance said: Not strictly related, but awesome video.
0:30 thoughts on valorant mapsExternal Content www.youtube.comContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.6:48 thoughts on corporate ladder creating monotony in mapping
most of the vid shows his design process for aw maps if you are interested
Oh wow, he was a designer at Infinity Ward/Treyarch!? I would have never thought because of his character
Quote from blackdog3 hours ago, blackdog said: I would have never thought because of his character
He actually took a break from his original "in character" youtube to level design on a whim. I get it, and a lot of the stuff he describes level design as is relatable. He has a passion for it. I think the clout he had helped him get noticed by sledgehammer games, but he designed some really good maps
Quote from Interfearance5 hours ago, Interfearance said: He actually took a break from his original "in character" youtube to level design on a whim. I get it, and a lot of the stuff he describes level design as is relatable. He has a passion for it. I think the clout he had helped him get noticed by sledgehammer games, but he designed some really good maps
wow
Quote Beahm went inactive from YouTube in late 2011 and did not release any content for nearly five years.
On March 16, 2011, Beahm was appointed as the community manager of Sledgehammer Games.[4][/sup] He was promoted to level designer and helped create many of the multiplayer maps for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare[/i].[5][/sup]Beahm joined Justin.tv (now Twitch) while he was working at Sledgehammer. He quit Sledgehammer in 2015 to focus on a full-time streaming career.[6][/sup]
Would have never expected such a background
Yeah, me neither. It does makes sense to a certain extent that someone that's so good at video games and plays them for a living, knows the ins and outs of how to develop them too.
Say what you want about this game's map design, but the more I watch gameplay the more I feel like I need to play it NOW. The teleportation system looks pretty sick, you can kind of save your push progress without backtracking. Also, the abilities don't look all bad, from what I have heard they are all utilities. You can't really have most of them in CS because the game is fantastical. The only dreaded feeling I think a lot of us got was the lack of sdk or basic editor in a game with such simple maps and stylized art. The game will be a time sinkhole where the only way to really get involved in the community will be becoming pro versus being able to make cool maps.
I remember in a QNA video the devs were asked whether they plan on having a map editor and their response was that they wanted to focus on making the game as good as it can be, and not get distracted with extraneous stuff like that. I personally don't see them ever coming out with a level editor. They're too proud of their visual artistry to ever let a community member influence the look of their game. Riot is a bunch of artists who steal game mechanics from other games. They won't even let you upload your own custom profile icon - instead they have these incredibly generic profile banners, which look like they straight up took the concept art for the weapons and agents off the shelf, along with some product designs for the Valorant brand. Sprays - same thing. And then there are those name tags, which are also similarly generic and corny. And to me this ties back to what yall have said about the abilities that they take away the freedom of exploring the game and discovering cool things and expressing your personality in a unique way. Instead they take these modes of personal expression and bottle them up in an ability - you like to hold off angles? We've got just the right agent for you - Jett. You like to throw strategic smokes while setting up a site execute? Well, you're in the right hands, buddy! We've got Brimstone for ya. You like making info plays and being aware of the movement and positioning of the enemy teams? Here's Cypher! You like chipping away from your enemies'' health with smart nade usage? Raze is just for you. Riot is like a morbidly insecure, overprotective, narcissistic parent (they won't even admit they're trying to compete with CSGO) who scolds his children for watching porn and going to concerts and then gives them placebo pills and cough syrup every night after curfew, trying to make sure they don't get into trouble. Cause trouble is bad. And god forbid you fail at trying to have a personality. That would be too much to swallow. And what will we do with you if you try to line up a smoke and it lands one meter off, then you die because of it and you feel annoyed? No, here's a tablet screen where you can point exactly where you want your smoke to land. Cause heaven forbid, you go play another game! And don't say those nasty words! God always listens!
And if I was on Riot's PR team, I would say add an option to disable that anti-cheat and go public about it, saying "We know that many of you have previously experienced the exploits of intrusive anti cheat (implying ESEA), but we are here to fix that! Our anti-cheat can be disabled at any time you want because we care about you!". Here it's very important to ponder on this trust thing because Riot are very deceptive and they don't want their players developing trust issues, otherwise they might discover that they're full of shit. "So come here, my children! This is a safe haven! You shall lay here in my harem where you can lick your wounds." That's how you draw members into your fucked up cult. You tap into their insecurity and you give an answer to their anxiety.
Also, really smart marketing. The beta release? The twitch streams? The random drops? I was already invested way before I had the chance to try the game and get shit on.
Quote from will2k7 hours ago, will2k said: Valorant anti-cheat starts upon computer boot and runs all the time, even when you don't play the game
Fuck
I think most people should reserve opinions until they've played the game, not just go off my single biased view.
Some of this stuff is starting to sound nuts. It does not even play that similarly to csgo from what we have seen. The abilities are almost all utility that couldn't even exist in the world of csgo. I think the main reason people are playing Valorant is because they really are doing everything right off the bat. The first 3 maps are more adventurous than what I have seen in a while. I can imagine the game going in a good direction in the future due to its developers knowing what they are doing.
Its pretty obvious that competitive csgo players are either riding the wave or hate it because they realize it will sap players from CS. Attack valve, not the competitor. They have milked us for years and you are calling riot a cult. IRONIC
Quote from InterfearanceOn 4/12/2020 at 3:09 AM, Interfearance said: Not strictly related, but awesome video.
0:30 thoughts on valorant mapsExternal Content www.youtube.comContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.6:48 thoughts on corporate ladder creating monotony in mapping
most of the vid shows his design process for aw maps if you are interested
Mind=Blown
I need to take along walk in the country to get over this. Sadly, that's not possible right now...maybe I'll go play with my lego and build de_Dust2
Quote from Interfearance11 hours ago, Interfearance said: They have milked us for years and you are calling riot a cult. IRONIC
How is CS milking its players? CS is a one-time purchase. After paying once, you can play 10 years later. That is a fair model. Especially now, as the game is free-to-play and has no cost for playing competitively. In CS, your character or account doesn't get better over time, you do. That is not true at all for games that are live-service first, a competitive game second like League of Legends or Valorant. I have no idea why they are even called competitive games. Starting with a fresh account gives you at most times a disadvantage great enough to not be able to win against lower skilled opponents, who have the meta heroes unlocked. The live service is literally more important than the competitive integrity of the game. In a live service game, pro players are required to buy the heroes at launch to get a competitive advantage. Pro players have to pay the developer a fee for playing their game competitively. The game isn't a one-time purchase. Wouldn't you call that milking?
Finished a full match yesterday, so I played Valorant for about 40 or so minutes.
The first few minutes, it definitely feels like CS. It moves like CS, it jumps like CS, weapon firing feels exactly like CS, has exactly the same guns as CS (they've just been renamed and look different), they basically started out with CS as the foundation and tried to mess around with it's formula a bit. Then you start noticing the small differences, for instance the attackers are stuck in the spawn for 30 seconds. This is probably due to the map I played (Haven) being wider, since there's 3 bomb spots, A, B and C. (I've yet to try the other 2 maps, which only have A and B, like CS)
I played the whole match with the Phoenix class, afaik you can't change class midgame, but I could be wrong. I think he might be the most classic "CS" class too, since you have your flashbang and a molotof, he can also cast a wall of fire that seems to deal damage to anyone that touches it and also works as a vision blocker. His ult allows him to put a teleport on the ground that you can teleport back to. I'll try the other classes later.
The level design feels very grid like and lacking any sort of organic feeling to it. At least the map I played feels like a 90° hodge podge, loads of sharp corners everywhere, which I know plays well in this genre but I wish they introduced a bit of the pareto principle and had a range there to break up the monotony.
Here's a link for the 3 maps, if you guys are curious to check it out: https://blitz.gg/valorant/maps
Will play some more and let you know my thoughts.
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