CSGO Players are like... "People are wasting hunderd of hours of their life to make extra free content for my favorite game, fuck them !!!"
I always wanted to make a new map for the game or, why not, finishing Highlands huhu. I even started a map for this competition, even with the small amount of free time I can have with a kid to take care of. But when I read the shit talk from csgo "pgm", seriously, why I would do that ?
Quote from ElectroSheep33 minutes ago, ElectroSheep said: CSGO Players are like... "People are wasting hunderd of hours of their life to make extra free content for my favorite game, fuck them !!!"
I always wanted to make a new map for the game or, why not, finishing Highlands huhu. I even started a map for this competition, even with the small amount of free time I can have with a kid to take care of. But when I read the shit talk from csgo "pgm", seriously, why I would do that ?
I think this is a good benchmark for how far this convo has gone off. I was talking about how maps today have a really similar layout style in the beginning
Quote from blackdog1 hour ago, blackdog said: like Insertion it’s criticised and not given a chance.
Well I think there are certain fundamentals that keep the game in control like having defined areas, and they all got ignored on that map. It was cool though
Quote from Interfearance1 hour ago, Interfearance said: I think this is a good benchmark for how far this convo has gone off. I was talking about how maps today have a really similar layout style in the beginning
They really don't though, this you not understanding the nuances that go into map design. Each of the top 11 maps in the contest play radically different.
Quote from Vaya1 hour ago, Vaya said: They really don't though, this you not understanding the nuances that go into map design. Each of the top 11 maps in the contest play radically different.
I understand this, but a lot of it is also very fundamentally similar to what we have seen before. It is hard to explain, but u can pm you the sort of layout I am talking about when school is out. The whole composition is different
Also there are 11?
Quote from Interfearance29 minutes ago, Interfearance said: I understand this, but a lot of it is also very fundamentally similar to what we have seen before. It is hard to explain, but u can pm you the sort of layout I am talking about when school is out. The whole composition is different
Also there are 11?
Judging a map from an overview image is the same as judging a book by it's cover. Says a lot about the person.
Quote from Tynnyri28 minutes ago, Tynnyri said: bro the score share was 3/4ths visuals alone
That was about interfearance saying that most of the maps in competition are similiar. I said judging map by the layout is not the best idea.
Quote from Tynnyri5 minutes ago, Tynnyri said: considering layout in context of csgo means the map's basic gameplay loop I find your comments so hilariously bad I cannot take them seriously. btw overview image shows the layout, those two things are not mutually inclusive. you can have maps with no overview image but still have layouts. Interference wasn't talking about overview images but instead the map layouts, while you're saying map overviews aren't good way to judge a map. its so hilariously bad I don't know what to say anymore.
At this point I wonder why do I even try to explain how clueless you two are but I think thats enough for me.
I will just wait till you guys can make use of your SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE and get your map featured somewhere for at least a second. So far I have seen you two making so many bad arguments and remarks about the top 10 maps its hard to believe that behind those posts there is not a single valid point or anything supported by professional experience 
I didn't say anything criticizing top 10, I literally said they all have a traditional layout style like cache and dust and not like train, nuke, and ovp
Quote from Tynnyri3 hours ago, Tynnyri said: bro the score share was 3/4ths visuals alone
You completely skipped over my previous comment about how it clearly is not 3/4ths
I think it's silly to sort things out. You can spend a bunch of hours and more discussing the top 11.
What I think - I have always been taught - it is important to be able to present yourself and your creativity. And no matter what brilliant thing I would create, nothing matters if it is not done accurately and presentably. At the university, I was deprived of a scholarship, from just one small spot, on white paper. It was a shame, but I save it for me, and think it was important to do accurately and on time. I think this quality is not enough for many artists. Regarding the layouts and their similarity. If we start to beat everyone who uses the basic layout of clover and their similar ones, most likely we will have to make maps for RTS or Open space games like PUBG. And even then, we run into the idea of clover. Why is that? We will analyze any map into parts. And we will understand that it is ideal for each point to have a triangular shape. And adding up the mechanics of 2 key points, we get the shape of a clover.
The reader can give a comment, you are wrong, you can come up with a 5-sided shape and so on. But in truth, no. Having made 5 exits to the key point, 2 of them will always be empty or will refer to the remaining 3.
And since they are superfluous and will not be used, why are they? Let's look at DotA 2. Game 5 vs 5, 3 lines used, same clover? - Yes. Is it convenient to play? - Yes. How did valve diversify the map? They changed the candy wrapper, but did not change the candy, not because they could not, but because the balance can disturbed. Now back to the discussion, the gameplay is important and how important the visualization is. Part of the gaming experience is the environment. And it is the environment that shapes the situation. even, for example, top 11. We see how much the environment affects the feeling, already on the familiar composition of the maps. And now, those who disagree with me, try to come up with a chair. New, unique chair. Believe my experience - this is a real challenge. With one way or another, you will come across a generally accepted basic composition, because it is the only correct one, and the only thing you can do is change the visual form. (in Russian it song is cool, not sure about understandable in English) I Glad too see great maps in top 11. Congratz!
2 hours ago, untor said: most likely we will have to make maps for RTS or Open space games like PUBG
I don't think this is the case at all, like I have said before, there are going to be general "rules" with every game like having well defined areas, appropriate scale, and chokepoints. It doesn't mean the only way to adhere to this is by making a layout such as the abstract one you showed.
2 hours ago, untor said: Why is that? We will analyze any map into parts. And we will understand that it is ideal for each point to have a triangular shape.
Lets take train for example. Even in the a very simplified version of its paths, it would not be fair to call it a clover layout
There is an additional loop (or triangle), the bombsites take different positions than usual on the loops, and there are also other big differences.
The bombsites are vast and multiple times the size of the plant zone, compensated for by fast rotates and rush timings. In this case the concept of a bomb site is different from any other map.
In the case of vertigo, the size and pacing of the map is dramatically changed.
In nuke, rotates are really unique, and the map is built in a way that feels totally different than all others while still being fun.
I think it can be agreed that there are not many maps like these, yet they are very successful.
I once remember fmpone saying somewhere that if you made dust 2 today everybody would say it can't work due to the lack of cover and huge sightlines. Most people probably interpreted this as a reason that dust 2 cant be beat, but I think this also shows that people are no longer willing to make radical changes to map design in csgo. Bombsite design is becoming very similar, most rotates are through a central passage (mid), and chokepoints are almost always reduced to pure 90 degree encounters rather than something like sweeping angles in t connector on train. Of course you don't have to change everything like on train, but it would be nice to see a little experimentation rather than 100 safe maps. Big mappers and successes lead the way for maps to come, and we will just see the same if nothing is shaken up
nuke + train are also 2 of the oldest layouts in the game. They are 'accepted' due to this and any change valve can force. We don't have that luxury. Come back and say the same stuff when you've been doing this a while, you'll have an epiphany sooner or later.
Quote from Vaya45 minutes ago, Vaya said: Come back and say the same stuff when you've been doing this a while, you'll have an epiphany sooner or later.
Hasty generalization. I have been making many layouts and testing them with my friends (of sufficient rank lol). I am making a layout right now. A year on, I have learned a lot from all my grayboxes which have not all been failures. Weren't you the one saying reinventing the 4 square is like reinventing milk? Dont just give up making something different after your first try or let people tell you it is not feasible without proof. every time people laugh at this it fuels me to come up with another layout better than the last. Maybe someone will have an epiphany and change things up lol
Quote from Interfearance9 minutes ago, Interfearance said: Hasty generalization. I have been making many layouts and testing them with my friends (of sufficient rank lol). I am making a layout right now. A year on, I have learned a lot from all my grayboxes which have not all been failures. Weren't you the one saying reinventing the 4 square is like reinventing milk? Dont just give up making something different after your first try or let people tell you it is not feasible without proof. every time people laugh at this it fuels me to come up with another layout better than the last. Maybe someone will have an epiphany and change things up lol
running a service with 60 thousand subscribers gives you a pretty good inkling of what is accepted and what isn't.
Look up dunning-kruger, you're on the incline just now
Quote from Vaya19 minutes ago, Vaya said: running a service with 60 thousand subscribers gives you a pretty good inkling of what is accepted and what isn't.
I'm interested to see what is not accepted? I'm predicting its poorly made mirage clones
Quote from Vaya21 minutes ago, Vaya said: Look up dunning-kruger, you're on the incline just now
I guess I'll give this one to you lmao
Quote from Interfearance11 minutes ago, Interfearance said: I'm interested to see what is not accepted? I'm predicting its poorly made mirage clones
pretty much anything not a 4 leaf DE map is a nope. Hostage maps are normally an insta ban. we've had 2 nuke-style layouts which have been really unpopular.
http://faceit.fnugz.com/maps/ here is some stats for the contest. we're planning on forcing the less popular maps more
Quote from Vaya1 minute ago, Vaya said: 2 nuke-style layouts
wait actually? can I see them. I've not really seen anyone seriously try this. There are a lot of things that can go wrong and some bullets you must bite (radar).
Quote from Interfearance1 minute ago, Interfearance said: wait actually? can I see them. I've not really seen anyone seriously try this. There are a lot of things that can go wrong and some bullets you must bite (radar).
empire + junction. Have you not looked at the workshop at all? one of these maps was in an operation...
Quote from Vaya1 minute ago, Vaya said: empire + junction. Have you not looked at the workshop at all? one of these maps was in an operation...
Oh... I know both of those maps, one is by horse strangler I played it a bit. I actually enjoyed it im surprised it was unpopular.
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