FUBAR Ops

Quote from insta

You could see your body in Trespasser, and it measured your health by the heart-tattoo on your left boobie. A very good feature.

Oh yeah, tresspasser, I remember now, that was a shitty game. Uh oh!

Quote from mikezilla

things like animating view models and shit like that becomes impossibly hard. Not to mention the issues with clipping into walls, and trees and shit. That or you won't be able to walk within 6 feet of anything.

Well I think I mentioned the animation problems already.

We, like most other games without physics, will ofcourse ignore clipping errors until HL2 arrives.

And there is also the problem of should the camera be attached to the body or the body attached to the camera.

If the camera is attached to the body the cameramovements will be a bit more jerky.

If body is attached to camera the body will animate, move and "interact" a bit more strangly with world around it.

Quote from Taylor

Obligatory: OLYARFPSBACT. But it sounds good, it'd be nice if we could have a new game-type though.

Lol, true. Not sure what you mean by new game-type, but I guess it wouldn’t be new if I did?

Quote from Taylor

they're all ready to try and follow in CS's footsteps by making it the most accurate simulation of real life ever and fixing all of CS's problems! ...and failing to realise CS is popular mainly because of its unrealistic traits.

I'm not sure they do. And if they are they seem to go about it wrong.

And it might be you’re and DD's (and lots of others) idea that CS is fun is because it's unrealistic, but it's not mine.

CS is fun because it got great timing and balance and lots of immersion.

Timing because you don't have to wait long until you get into action, but it's not Q3/UT fast that you feel like a cheetah on steroids, detracts immersion.

And timing because you're being punished long enough but not so long that you don't want to play again.

Quote from DD

Ay Taylor. You speak the truth. REAL != FUN. Read any magazine, book, or talk to anyone who knows about game design, not even a lot about game design, they'll tell you that REAL isn't FUN.

REAL != FUN.....K Taylor and DD tell you what, there are different kinds of people! *gasp*

Yeah, and there is a whole line of games that sells under the name of "simulations" and some actually buy them!

Sorry, couldn’t resist, I generally agree; REAL != FUN in a game.

But this is supposed to be a "serious" game not a comedy one. In serious games the more the world feels believable and still is not boring, the better it is, in my opinion.

Compare it too a good movie, the more it immerses you the likelier you are too like it. Not because it's "realistic" but because details of “realism” is there, you can relate to it and not think about all the details that is wrong. Immersion is the key word for this mod. We want the adrenaline of immersion, not boring realism. But to get immersion we need details that make you feel you know this world already, and some of it comes from mimicking some parts of real life.

Yeah I know most don’t agree with this but take “bunnyhopping” and “hitfreeze” in CS as an example. Both in removing bunnyhopps and adding hitfreeze you are restricting the player, and if you are used to play without, it’s quite frustrating. But still, I think the overall experience benefit from the restrictions, because of better immersion.

I know... I’m weird.

And about asking a game designer, guess what they would have told Cliffe and Goose when they started on CS. Yepp, not a chance in hell that many players would play a game where you’d move slow, die easily, and had to wait out the round if you where killed.

Rofl Taylor!

Well lucky for you and The_Postman there are lots of mods and games that cater to youre tastes, alot more then there are CS wannabies mods. It just don't feel that way sometimes.

Me, I still miss that certain mod. And like all others I think; if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

Quote from spine

remember that it's still a game ur making so you will have to make some compromises

.. AAaahh! An NOW you tell me!!

Quote from DD

It's only balanced because its unreal. I'm not sure what you mean about timing, but if you mean gameplay timing, like the way CT's and T's will pop into aztec's main battle area at approx. the same time, and many other maps, thats not realistic either.

Not sure where I ever said that CS is realistic? Not sure where anyone ever said that?

You can say CS is more realistic than Q3 but that it's realistic, naah.

Quote from DD

I'm not sure what you mean about timing, but

Quote from mawibse

Timing because you don't have to wait long until you get into action, but it's not Q3/UT fast that you feel like a cheetah on steroids

Guess I'm not the only one with short attention span.

Quote from DD

Name a single great fun SIMULATION fps and/or third person.

I can't, FUBAR Ops aint ready yet.

Quote from DD

Never compare games to movies when it comes to gameplay, I will kill you a thousand times. Yes immersion is important to a game, very, but don't compare it to a movie, compare it to a really good immersive video game. .

Even though there are great fundamental diffrencies between games and movies both share certain traits that is comparible. One of them is the creation of immersion and how to acheive it.

Quote from DD

You really don't move slow in CS, its ridiculously unreal how fast you move, but slow compared to quake.

Uhm? Let's see, what would a gamedeveloper compare a new game/mod to??? Oh, perhaps OTHER EXISTING GAMES!! :roll:

Quote from DD

Considering you can take about 15-25 shots to the lefts and arms and chest before dieing, I wouldn't say die easily.

... If you have to shoot 30 shots before you manage to kill someone in CS I can understand why you hate it...

Quote from DD

CS you always had to wait rounds. So yes, if you asked Goose to change features in CS, which mostly was there in the very early version, I guarantee they would agree, since they made the decisions for the current version and past.

... what are you talking about?

Quote from DD

And so I must again say, REAL != FUN. Try to argue it all you want, but you will fail.

If you where the Judge of it then, yes, then I would fail.

Quote

And it might be you’re and DD's (and lots of others) idea that CS is fun is because it's unrealistic, but it's not mine.

And I said that CS is realistic, where?

Quote from DD

Exactly, you can't name a single good fun simulation game. The does say a lot how FUBAR will turn out.

... guess thats youre logic, but we're not quiters casue something looks difficult.

Quote from DD

That had nothing to do with my point, try reading again.

Uhm.. I read it again, lets see;

I wrote that a gamedeveloper would not think that a game that has a slow player speed had a good chance of becoming popular.

You wrote that CS player speed wasnt slow, only if you compared it to Quake.

And I said that of course a gamedeloper would compare it to other games.

And you said that "that had nothing to do with youre point"!!??

....K? I can't see youre point except what everybody already knows, and its the very reason for FUBAR Ops, CS aint very realistic.

Quote from DD

I never said I hate cs. Please don't speak in my name.

You mean like you somehow reading into a sentence that I said that CS is realistic?

Quote from DD

Anyways, I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to help. SIMS and games that try to be as realistic as possible generally are not fun. I can't think of a single SIM fps which I consider fun. Operation Flashpoint was neat... but soon got boring and its still not quite a SIM.

I'm sorry you think this mod won't twirl youre hair. But you're not it's targeted audience... obviously.

Well I'm not sure how you tried to help but I thank you for youre effort.

CREATIVE IDEA != FUN

:roll:

Quote from DD

Wow you are so ignorant. A mod/game is doomed to failure with your beliefs in game design.

... let's see..

ID makes Doom]I[ one of the more anticipated games this year, tell me what the "creative idea" behind that one is?

Valve makes HL2 one of the more anticipated games this year, tell me what the "creative idea" behind that one is?

Dice makes Battlefield Vietnam one of the more anticipated games this year, tell me what the "creative idea" behind that one is?

Polyphony Digital's makes Gran Turismo 4 one of the more anticipated games this year, tell me what the "creative idea" behind that one is?

Gearb... Bungie is making Halo 2 one of the more anticipated games this year, tell me what the "creative idea" behind that one is?

Oddly enough, it seems those considered the best game designers in the world don't think a "creative idea" is enough to make a successful game.

But we, who know better, know that they are all ignorant and that all their games are doomed because of their beliefs in gamedesign. :roll:

Quote from Holeman

actually the game designers have creative ideas, its the publishers who dont trust the creative ideas, on a side note how many of those are "realistic simulations"

Uhm, ID and Valve is controlled by their publishers?

I'd say in the game market about 2-4% is "realistic simulations".

Is youre point that since we dont have a publisher we should have a creative idea and since a very small part of all games are "realistic simulations" we shouldnt try to make our mod immersive with means of "realism"???

Then sorry, point not taken.