POTUS 2016

    Quote from Vorontsov

    14 minutes ago, Vorontsov said: She will be

    Sprony these aren't even arguments, how well people bullshit their speech is a very trivial non-issue :/

    I'm not making an argument. I said I don't like the comparison. I don't like Clinton nor Trump. Clinton is a criminal and Trump is just scary. The fact that he actually won scares me even more. But hey, this is the best the American system could produce. Garbage in, garbage out. I'm with George:

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    Quote from dux

    Just now, dux said: Sanders was there and people looked passed him.

    No, Sanders was fucked by Hillary and the rest of the party. It's pretty well documented. It's all so corrupt.


    Quote from dux

    6 minutes ago, dux said: Not long before this gets locked.

    I hope for once, that we'll all be mature enough.

    Quote from Buddy

    6 minutes ago, Buddy said: Soooo.. complete ban on abortion is not a crazy right wing policy?


    Ban abortion was a citizens act written by a ProLife foundation not present goverment and they rejected it right away.

    Quote from LizardPL

    2 minutes ago, LizardPL said: Ban abortion was a citizens act written by a ProLife foundation not present goverment and they rejected it right away.

    Check how the governing party leadership voted on it.

    Quote from Buddy

    1 minute ago, Buddy said: Check how the governing party leadership voted on it.

    I really don't want to call you out here since I want to keep this conversation at decent level. But you can use some simple logic here. The ruling party have majority of votes. If they would vote "yes" it would pass right away. Did it? No... educate yourself please.

    Well that was.. unexpected. Since the thread is probably on the way to locksville, I'll quickly get my analysis in.

    It just goes to show that polls aren't worth shit anymore, the data collection is just so seriously flawed to the point where it's embarrasing, even more so when you consider that the media and politicial elite have been so close to the democrats and Hillary in general that the bias has been obvious from miles off. With all this and the backing of her closest allies, especially all the money George Soros has poured into her campaign, she should have won by a consideral amount, a tight victory perhaps but a victory none the less. Instead, we have barely much of a difference from 2012, it's just that the Republicans sealed the deal. It's clear that the Democrats strategy to push Bernie out in favour of Clinton has backfired on them massively, they underestimated just how much Sanders voters disliked her, so much so that lots of them voted for a third party.

    Trump's message to get out and vote for change resonated with all the long disillusioned people in the poor rural areas that have been systematically brushed aside and largely forgotten about by much of the Political system. Those in the old coal mining towns that have seen themselves laid off consistently whilst their jobs go overseas to places like China. This wasn't so much an endorsment for Trump as it was a giant fuck you to the establishment, which throughout this campaign has dismissed Donald supporters as stupid, racist and not worth anyone's time, saying if you don't vote for Hillary you hate women and that has clearly driven many to vote the other way. The biggest shock was Florida, the media barrage was saying over and over again that the turnout for hispanics was unprecedented and that they were coming out to vote for Hillary, even at the time I wasn't convinced of that and it seems that skepticism was well warranted.

    So now what? Well It's going to be an interesting 4 years, I believe that he is going to tone his rhetoric right down, he pretty much has to now. He's going to have a tough time trying to achieve building the wall, banning muslims and other rediculous things without serious opposition in Congress (from the Democrats AND the Republicans), measures are in place to stop any kind of "dictatorship" forming so the Hitler analogies are just hyperbole. It's far too early to tell at this stage just what he will actually achieve, but since he a businessman rather than a career politician, unlike the latter who often make pledges that they don't keep, he might actually make progress in at least attempting to do some of the less radical, sensible things he wanted to do. I'll tell you one thing though, for all of those worried that Trump will start a Nuclear war, you need to realise that Hillary was the one openly pushing for a NFZ over Syria, which would mean shooting down Russian jets and inevitably put the US (and the rest of the world) onto a course for catastrophe. Trump is not interested in conflict with Moscow and actually could mend the tensions that exist between the two superpowers. This is because unlike a lot of the US establishment, he understands that they crossed a red line when America interfered in the political situation in Ukraine which was thanks to the bankrolling of opposition to Yanukovich by the likes of Hillary's best friend, George Soros again, who also stirred the pot during the Orange Revolution in '04.

    So.. it's done, let's just wait and see what happens and if he's so much of an absolute disaster as people think, then either he's voted out in 2020 or if he really fucks up, he can be impeached and thrown out of office, no one is above the law.*

    *except Hillary who has pretty much broken Federal law and endangered National Security..

    Quote from D3ads

    2 hours ago, D3ads said: So now what? Well It's going to be an interesting 4 years, I believe that he is going to tone his rhetoric right down, he pretty much has to now. He's going to have a tough time trying to achieve building the wall, banning muslims and other rediculous things without serious opposition in Congress (from the Democrats AND the Republicans), measures are in place to stop any kind of "dictatorship" forming so the Hitler analogies are just hyperbole. It's far too early to tell at this stage just what he will actually achieve, but since he a businessman rather than a career politician, unlike the latter who often make pledges that they don't keep, he might actually make progress in at least attempting to do some of the less radical, sensible things he wanted to do.

    I really really hope you are correct about the toning down of his rhetoric, but I would be quite shocked if he did. I just don't think he's that type of person, he's loud and crass and always has been. There are moments in which he speaks in a respectable manner, but those are fleeting at best. I think with this election win and huge buff on his ego, he will be more of himself. After winning while wholly rejecting the notion that he has to be in any way respectful of others, while everyone was calling for him to tone it down, I think if anything he will be emboldened to say and do as he pleases regardless of what the GOP establishment wants.

    It will be interesting to see how the Senate and House check him. It is disheartening that he has a majority Congress throughout, but at least it is a slim majority. As we have all seen through the years, partisanship runs extremely deep here. Many many Republicans have rationalized even his most batshit crazy ideas throughout the campaign. After 8 years of Democratic leadership in the White House, I think the GOP gov't will be eager to push their issues and in doing so let some of his craziness pass along with it.

    I don't think Trump would use nukes against Russia. I am afraid of him using them against other countries though. He has said things along those lines many times - though I believe and hope this was just verbal bully posturing, and not something he would actually act upon. He is a bully, and I hope he just sticks to being an all-talk bully.

    He and Putin are both self-centered, self-aggrandizing bullies. They both stroke each other's and their own egos, and by doing so maybe they will get along famously and maybe the animosity between the countries will assuage. However, their friendship will be balanced on a razor's edge. If they can maintain that balance, things will be fine. But if Putin rubs Trump the wrong way, given Trump's fragile ego and volatility, it could set off a shit storm (probably via @POTUS on twitter ). Trump would run his mouth and Putin would lash back. I hope those close to Trump will be able to stop the spiral.


    All that said... Today is the first time I can truly say I am wholly ashamed of my country. I can't tell if I'm rationalizing with myself or not - but for my own sanity, I have to believe that this was not primarily a YES for Donald Trump, or even a "lesser of two evils" vote, but in the largest part a "fuck you" to the government. I cannot believe that 50% of the people in this country would choose bigotry, racism, xenophobia, machoism, bullying, crudeness, extraordinary sexism, exclusionism, islamophobia, antisemitism, arrogance, selfishness, and hatred. I cannot believe that 50% of people would really think that is the lesser of the two evils. I can believe that 50% are so disappointed with our system that they want to burn it down, that it feels good to proudly pound up two big middle fingers to the heart of our government.

    I hope that we struggle through the next two years, that they aren't quite as damaging to our country and values as I dread they might be... And centrists and liberals and progressives come out loud and strong and proud and with a renewed vigor for inclusion of all peoples that has apparently been lost, and vote in a strong Dem Congress to block Trump's craziest schemes. And continue that strength for the following two, til the next Presidential Election.

    One more note -

    What I think will be telling of what we're in for will be the following:

    Does he, when he gets sworn in, proceed with his claim to appointing a special prosecutor to look into HRC. That is something he could do with little pushback or checks on his authority, and would indicate just how fragile and vengeful he is.

    What, if anything, does he do to move against the press and freedom of speech and libel laws.

    What does he tweet from @POTUS. His Twitter has been the mouthpiece of much of his most heinous rhetoric, and I think it could give an early insight into his level of respect for the office he has been trusted with, and whether he plans on toning his hateful speech down.

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