EU Referendum

Interesting read :

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Quote As the dust settles on the EU referendum battleground, some 33 million voters await with bated breath to see what the victors will do now that the nation has spoken to leave.[/b]

Political commentators forecast a dark future for the UK: Jeremy Corbyn has just sacked Hilary Benn to head off a coup, and Boris Johnson could be prime minister come November.

David Cameron’s decision to resign before enacting Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which sets out how a country could leave the EU, may have much bigger implications for Conservative hopefuls eyeing up the Prime Minister's seat than they bargained for.

While panic ensues, one person’s musings in the comments section of the Guardian[/i] has an interesting hypothesis on these complications:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

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The comment, which was picked up on Twitter, has been shared thousands of times.

If true, that is some[/i] parting gift.

Via >> http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people…rue--bJhqBql0VZ

Quote from El Moroes

38 minutes ago, El Moroes said: Interesting read :

That is fucking was.

If true, than that's amazing. My kinda guy

Regardless of our views people, can we just enjoy the beauty of the English language? How the British use it to perfection in disguising as much emotion as possible? Like when they said:"It didn't quite go as planned". Which actually means:"I may have caused irreversible damage on a monumental scale".

Exciting times to live in, isn't it? I'm getting my popcorn out for the next 2-7 years.

There have been rumors, that Scotland might consider to join the Rep. of Ireland, which would ease the process of getting back into the EU, when (or if) UK leaves officially. With N.IR inbetween, it would then make sense for them to do the same. I guess it's one of the various possibilites for the Scottish to stay in the EU.

But honestly, I'd rather love to see a reform of the EU structure, with more emphasis on the EU parliament (which is actually elected) and less on the commission. It has been a good motor for human rights and environment issues. Also it is actually intellectually capable to oppose legislation or deals, e.g. free trade agreements (CETA, TTIP, TISA), that are not in the interest of the member states and their citizens.

Other than that: I've been to London a week ago. It's lovely to travel around in Europe freely and it would be a shame to exclude the UK out of it. But that's the least of the problems and can be resolved easily in the coming years.

Quote from Bastion

9 hours ago, Bastion said:

That is fucking was.

Reads like Game of Thrones.

In the meantime, only Merkel doesn't want to get over the separation quickly on the Europe side, which lay effectively push the UK out anyway..

Wow, that's some house of cards shit right there.

Well we can sing that too !

This is a joke right? Good goof UK!

No one leaves the union. NO ONE.

Merkel is a twat, France has no economy and all the UK does is pour money into the EU where it gets pissed away. EU threatens the UK over leaving so what did they expect? You don't go and threaten one of the few countries holding the EU together and expect compliance, what a dumb move that was - the EU was already disliked enough as it was in the UK. Way to go you utter twats. Cameron also proving he is the worst PM this country has ever had. Chinless twat of a coward.

Saw this on twitter

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Wasn't voter turnout particularely low among the young? So not sure where he pulls these numbers from. Never trust statistics that you haven't forged yourself i suppose.

Quote from Steppenwolf

5 minutes ago, Steppenwolf said: Wasn't voter turnout particularely low among the young? So not sure where he pulls these numbers from. Never trust statistics that you haven't forged yourself i suppose.

Did not help that the vote was happening during the most stressful few weeks for students in the UK.

On another note i find it useless to draw conclusions about what's best based on age and education levels of voters. Everyone can be an idiot.

Had only students in the late 60's voted we would live in Maoist Soviet Europe or something now. Funny enough those are these old people now.

I agree, I've seen idiots and very rational, intelligent people alike voting both ways. It's just not as simple as you're an idiot for voting out, even though that wouldn't have been my choice. These are nonetheless some interesting albeit unsurprising observations:

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I must say that as someone who comes from a backwater town and who now lives in a multi-cultural city, it's impossible to not draw a link between the casual racism that permeates throughout that town and its huge sway towards voting to leave the EU.

I have no doubt that many of these leave votes were fuelled by xenophobia, racism, and/or frustration at not earning very much, none of which will be helped by leaving the EU. Of course a lot of fine citizens did vote leave for entirely sensible and rational reasons — but those people aren't the ones who tipped the scales.

Essentially, I think that we're leaving for entirely the wrong reasons, but the good news is that voters' motivations and what politicians decide to do with the country upon leaving are two entirely different things. My hope is that we'll be able to arrange a new set-up that retains free movement of workers and access to the common market — which would inevitably involve taking back on various EU laws much as Switzerland does — which even Brexit politicians are now starting to hint may be the case.

The holy grail would be a general election where we can vote in a party with a mandate to scrap Brexit, which I believe would override the referendum in terms of adhering to what the public wants. If Scotland is successful in stalling the referendum as it intends to, this is actually a (remote) possibility.

I'm convinced that the UK will remain. They made a lot of noise, but nobody actually has a concrete exit plan. Now that the shit has hit the fan, they are slowly starting to realize all the consequences. That's why they already started spinning things. Cameron made a genius move by leaving straight away. Nobody wants to burn their fingers on this.

It reminds me of a time I was put in jail for the night, but they couldn't calm me down because I demanded a phone call. After hours of shouting and throwing tantrums, they caved and gave me my call. While I was standing there in the police station, with all those irritated eyes upon me, I realized I didn't really had someone to call and told them 'Fuck it'. They were not amused. I suppose the same applies to the Brexit leaders and the UK people.

Quote from dux

On 6/27/2016 at 4:09 PM, dux said: Merkel is a twat, France has no economy and all the UK does is pour money into the EU where it gets pissed away. EU threatens the UK over leaving so what did they expect? You don't go and threaten one of the few countries holding the EU together and expect compliance, what a dumb move that was - the EU was already disliked enough as it was in the UK. Way to go you utter twats. Cameron also proving he is the worst PM this country has ever had. Chinless twat of a coward.

It is fascinating how different the public's perception of a situation can vary between countries that are merely a few hundred miles away from each other. Many people in the UK seem to believe that they had gotten a bad deal with the EU, even more, that the EU was bullying them. Ask me and I believe that the UK already had gotten granted quite a lot of extra wishes and the EU was in no way threatening or blackmailing the UK - quite the opposite. But I am happy that we can discuss the subject on an internet forum, instead of shooting each other in the head, you know, like our ancestors did.

That's why I am very disappointed that the British decided to give up on the EU just like that - instead of getting to work to fix it. Because I believe it's a very worthwhile project. But it's not much of a surprise that many voters failed to see this, having experienced and indulged in the many years long British tradition of railing against the EU.

Now the burden of proof is on the shoulders of the Leave-campaign leaders. My hope is that a) the leaders of the remaining EU countries will take the right learnings and actions from this to get people on board again and that b) the populists all over Europe lose credibility as the Brexit is either aborted or does not deliver the results that BoJo et al promised.

Way to go UK:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sad…e-a3281456.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-n…n-a7104191.html

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That's Hackney. That's everyday life there. And that guy born in the UK with an accent that thick? Nah.

Quote from dux

2 hours ago, dux said: That's Hackney. That's everyday life there.

Totally excusable then.....