[CS:GO] surf_greatriver_2015

    2015 is a great year for Source, and I decided to celebrate this by redesigning on of the most popular surf maps of all times: surf_greatriver (by Black). The original map lacked many aestethic appeal. I decided to give it my abstract, freeminded design with a modern coat to it.

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    Greatriver 2015 tries to simulate a (sc)ion-like, futuristic feeling in an otherwise wordly setting, taking into account the name it bears by the inclusion of rivers and the wide open sea as skybox. I wanted to respect nearly everything of the original greatriver in terms of technicals and movement, so I didn't went crazy in renewing the ramps completely or adding new gimmicks or things that would derive from the original gameplay. A few changes however should be listed right here:

    • No more 3D skybox elements. The hill is, and will always be ugly. In my opinion it plays an insignificant role in visuals and gameplay, so it got removed. The MyPlex logo was removed and all forms of clan-advertisements. Only credits of the original authors and contributors remain in the map (by the aid of decals)
    • Because a majority of dislikes towards both the grenade room and the lasers in jail were apparant, those have been removed. They play no part in the concept of surf and are purely there for imbalancing the skill in surfing.
    • Undershotty is (currently) removed. Unfortunatly this might be a controversial change, and is probably the only, big change compared to the original xDre4m version.
    • Cubemaps, water reflections, soundscapes and additional sounds have been added. Radar and optimised navigation file are available and a loading image + description are not lacking.

    I have always wanted to remake a map, preferably a surf map in order to boost and support the surf community on Global Offensive. With that said, the last update to this map signed the end of my personal free input and time for the surf community.

    Take this however you will but I believe that you should of made something new rather than a remake of something old, not saying that some old maps aren't worth saving but I think that slapping on new textures and putting in new models won't make it any better. The current look is pretty good but I still think it could use some improvements, I think that it looks like source because of some of the textures you used as well as the lack of detail in some of the things in the map like the spawns or the jail. When remaking something you should take in consideration of what you're trying to improve upon. and in this edit I believe you focused only on visuals with the addition of some removed stuff. The visuals in this map honestly don't stick out to me because I've seen it about a thousand times with other surf maps, modern, abstract, and clean. If you honestly wanted to remake the map and have it be unique in its own self you should of gone bold and created your own style to add to it, something that isn't like every other surf map. I understand that you were trying to stay "true" to the original by not changing anything but I feel like more people would want a new map rather than a remake of an old map which there are probably a bunch of.

    Quote from UnknownPredator

    Take this however you will but I believe that you should of made something new rather than a remake of something old, not saying that some old maps aren't worth saving but I think that slapping on new textures and putting in new models won't make it any better. The current look is pretty good but I still think it could use some improvements, I think that it looks like source because of some of the textures you used as well as the lack of detail in some of the things in the map like the spawns or the jail. When remaking something you should take in consideration of what you're trying to improve upon. and in this edit I believe you focused only on visuals with the addition of some removed stuff. The visuals in this map honestly don't stick out to me because I've seen it about a thousand times with other surf maps, modern, abstract, and clean. If you honestly wanted to remake the map and have it be unique in its own self you should of gone bold and created your own style to add to it, something that isn't like every other surf map. I understand that you were trying to stay "true" to the original by not changing anything but I feel like more people would want a new map rather than a remake of an old map which there are probably a bunch of.

    As a mapmaker myself I agree with most of what you're saying, however as a surfer who has spent hundreds of hours on end in both CSS and CSGO on this particular map.
    I really appreciate someone taking the time to come up with some new visuals, even if they are just that.
    Also you say that it's not that unique yet i don't feel like I've seen this before even though I've played just about every surf map I have come across.
    Another thing is, even if you don't feel these visuals are very interesting, just like competive CS map, high level surfers really appreciate clarity and I'd job well done in that department.
    Last thing is that it still looks very different visually from the xDre4m version which it's based upon, which I guess is the main point of this version.

    personally I'm pretty excited to try this map out when I have time! I think it looks pretty sleek. Will come back with an update on how it plays later

    I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but if you're going to post a surf map, the least you can do is to post a video of a run through the map :P

    Hey there! Thank you for your opinion and thoughts on the map. I would like to adress a few things to clarify my intentions behind this map:

    Quote from UnknownPredator

    The current look is pretty good but I still think it could use some improvements, I think that it looks like source because of some of the textures you used as well as the lack of detail in some of the things in the map like the spawns or the jail.

    I didn't have the impression that it looks like Source overall, but a reason that may be the case is because you are not directly seeing the overall effect of the dynamic shadows, something which distinctively changes the feel from Source over CSGO (even though both ARE the Source Engine after all). They are there, for sure, but because the entire map is floating in the air, it might just give you that feeling. Although the spawnzones and jail do in fact lack 'detail', as in pretty things to make the map more and more clustered with pointless headsight items and decals, I think that's ok, because the original version had literally nothing of that. At most it had blood decals, and plain black textures with a yellow plaster texture.

    Quote from UnknownPredator

    When remaking something you should take in consideration of what you're trying to improve upon. and in this edit I believe you focused only on visuals with the addition of some removed stuff. The visuals in this map honestly don't stick out to me because I've seen it about a thousand times with other surf maps, modern, abstract, and clean.

    Well, considering that I only wanted to improve the visuals, I was well aware of what I wanted to improve :lol: I don't agree with what you say though about having seen it 'a thousand times'. At most I can really point out like 10-20 surf maps that each have their own unique style, whether it's clean, abstract or modern (depending on how you make the distinction of those two). For the rest, most surf maps stand out in their gameplay, but have a terrible design in the artistic approach (basically just textures slapped together, as you said). I haven't slapped together my textures just for the sake of it, I really did think about the colors, design and the readability and brightness of the overall texturing.

    I agree though, that the waterfall at this point looks bonkers, because the bottom edge that meets the water below is just absolutely ridicilous. I am fixing this in the next version.

    Quote from UnknownPredator

    and have it be unique in its own self you should of gone bold and created your own style to add to it, something that isn't like every other surf map. I understand that you were trying to stay "true" to the original by not changing anything but I feel like more people would want a new map rather than a remake of an old map which there are probably a bunch of.

    I worked together with a very professional Surfer who is closely related to some of the best surf mappers in the world that hold a few world records, and as soon as I went outside for extra information, I was always told to keep the map's original spirit untouched. So, what I did was focus on the surfing aspect as a skill, and remove everything that had nothing to do with surfing, such as the grenade room that is just pure luck without any possible intellectual involvement. It's fun, for about the first 2-3 times, but then it just takes away from the real challenge of being the airborn sky master that is able to outsmart his opponents with surfing rather than a forced lottery. Many, many people in multiple servers complained about the jail lasers and especially the nade room, so I felt it was an improvement to remove it. After all, I also added an admin room, and I intend to add even more buttons to activate secrets if the admins and players DEMAND so, but not force by the game because one player was fortunate enough to know a secret over new players, or decompiled to map to find out.

    In the end, I guess you're right. People would have preferred a new map rather than yet another remake of greatriver. However, it is crystal clear that there hasn't yet been a succesful port of the original greatriver (Xdream version) to CS:GO, and I'm working on one (that is not retextured, but is exactly like the source version but working for csgo in everyway). I just know that I don't have the talent to achieve a great surf map on my own in terms of gameplay, so I opted for a remake that instantly puts Greatriver, one of the most popular surf maps, among the CS:GO maps. The only thing I'm aware of is undershotty, and I'm bringing it back in the next version.

    Quote from Klems

    I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but if you're going to post a surf map, the least you can do is to post a video of a run through the map :P

    Sorry about that, you can find it here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmnUTQVAiZk

    It was made at the same time when making this topic and putting it on the workshop, I just forgot to link it here.

    EDIT: seems like adding Youtube video with the frame is impossible on MapCore (even with the in brackets

    I'm new so I may be missing something here, but why is 2015 a good year for the Source engine? Aside from some animation an audio updates for CSGO, as far as I can tell there really hasn't been anything super significant happening in terms of new Source games or mods?

    I should say that I don't think the CSGO levels people make are unimportant or insignificant, but as far as the engine goes, or how Source is perceived outside of modding communities, nothing big has happened.

    Quote from Skull_tumpet

    I'm new so I may be missing something here, but why is 2015 a good year for the Source engine? Aside from some animation an audio updates for CSGO, as far as I can tell there really hasn't been anything super significant happening in terms of new Source games or mods?

    I should say that I don't think the CSGO levels people make are unimportant or insignificant, but as far as the engine goes, or how Source is perceived outside of modding communities, nothing big has happened.

    Source itself is an old engine, dating as far as back to 2003 AFAIK.

    It is based on old Quake tools, so it is normal that it will be hard and inefficient to work with it.

    New Source 2 engine fixes a lot of issues and is way better, however, until those tools come around CS:GO we wont see many graphical improvements.

    Most surf maps are simply CSS ports to CS:GO, and even those have been done in poor fashion.

    Those maps could be remade to look better though, by using props and other new techniques that mappers have been using lately.


    Some good examples of mapping fidelity peaks are CS:GO operation maps, for example the new de_santorini looks both clean and very impressive for Source engine.

    Titanfall could be a good example of Source on steroids, an engine modified to a large extent to the point at which it is not recognizable. Source is good for its flexibility and age-less-ness.

    Not only that game, but Dear Esther is also taking the Source Engine to the maximum limit. You could barely believe that it is source, and while Titanfall is a complete rehaul of the Source Engine, Dear Esther is not. It is simply using the Episode Two engine and some custom shaders, but that's it.

    I was of the opinion that is was a great year because of CS:GO, and how mapmaking there is a huge succes. I agree that mods have completely left out of support, and in that regard Source is becoming less and less relevant.

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