I've been working on a bomb scenario map that is set at a dock. I think it's reached a point where it would be a good idea to playtest it before I go any further. Before I do that, I was wondering if anybody could provide any feedback on what I have made so far.
Here's the link to the Workshop file:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi…s/?id=518771182
...And here's some screenshots:
[Blocked Image: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/uploads/monthly_2015_09/2015-09-15_00015.thumb.jpg.4142b8e8b593aded344cf2210ae2cf8d.jpg]
This shelving will lead to bitty/frustrating gun battles if it's in an area of conflict. Suggest filling the middle of it with plywood so players can't see through?
Just had a run around with some bots. I like the exterior areas (with the exception of behind the trains, which you could stand to lose completely IMHO) but the interior feels overly complex, with far too many winding routes through which you can catch a glimpse of the enemy but may never see them again. I think think you need to get some directional decals up and clean up sightlines in the area Vaya just posted, then it will definitely benefit from a playtest.
Quote from Vaya[Blocked Image: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/uploads/monthly_2015_09/2015-09-15_00015.thumb.jpg.4142b8e8b593aded344cf2210ae2cf8d.jpg]
This shelving will lead to bitty/frustrating gun battles if it's in an area of conflict. Suggest filling the middle of it with plywood so players can't see through?
At the moment I've just placed crates to block the sight line through to the other section of the warehouse. I was intending to fill the shelves to make it more of a solid wall. Maybe I should do that before submitting it for playtesting. Thanks for your feedback!
Quote from text_fishJust had a run around with some bots. I like the exterior areas (with the exception of behind the trains, which you could stand to lose completely IMHO) but the interior feels overly complex, with far too many winding routes through which you can catch a glimpse of the enemy but may never see them again. I think think you need to get some directional decals up and clean up sightlines in the area Vaya just posted, then it will definitely benefit from a playtest.
Thanks for the feedback! I had a feeling that the area behind the trains might be a contentious one. Having said that, I would like to at least try and make it work if possible. I had envisioned the whole side area as being the scene of a tactical stand-off of sorts, but perhaps the extra passage will ultimately prove to be a bit too much. Could you elaborate on what you mean about the complex interior? Which area are you referring to? Am I right in thinking that directional decals are ones which signpost the bombsites?
Quote from MinorThreatCould you elaborate on what you mean about the complex interior? Which area are you referring to? Am I right in thinking that directional decals are ones which signpost the bombsites?
I mean pretty much the whole interior, to be honest. See red highlight below:
[Blocked Image: http://www.text-fish.co.uk/mappingstuff/minorthread_de_docks_anotated.png]
As a T you can't push any of the bottlenecks without constantly worrying that you're about to be flanked, because there are so many passages and corners to check all the time. It's fine to have some element of fear if there's sufficient reward at the end, but the player at least has to feel like they can anticipate likely maneuvers, strats, rotates etc. so that they can form a coherent plan of attack. If I were you I would turn most of these corridors in to one large atrium with plenty of cover, so at least players can push in one direction and use nades to close off certain threats from a distance.
Oh and I forgot to say, I hope the name de_docks is temporary because it's second only to de_warehouse in boringosity. 
Quote from text_fishI mean pretty much the whole interior, to be honest. See red highlight below:
[Blocked Image: http://www.text-fish.co.uk/mappingstuff/m…ks_anotated.png]
As a T you can't push any of the bottlenecks without constantly worrying that you're about to be flanked, because there are so many passages and corners to check all the time. It's fine to have some element of fear if there's sufficient reward at the end, but the player at least has to feel like they can anticipate likely maneuvers, strats, rotates etc. so that they can form a coherent plan of attack. If I were you I would turn most of these corridors in to one large atrium with plenty of cover, so at least players can push in one direction and use nades to close off certain threats from a distance.
Oh and I forgot to say, I hope the name de_docks is temporary because it's second only to de_warehouse in boringosity.
I count only two bottlenecks within the area you've highlighted (I've marked them in orange). I can't really see what you mean about the problems with being flanked and corner-checking. I'm not sure how clear it is on the picture, but the choke point marked with the small orange circle is a ladder up to the room with the window (in case you didn't know). Were you suggesting that the blue, green, or yellow area becomes one large atrium? As for the name, it is temporary, just struggling to think of anything at the moment that isn't generic and hasn't already been taken.
By bottleneck, I just mean any area where a player can expect to come across an enemy if both players are rushing, so this includes any corner or doorway within pretty much the top two thirds of the overview image.
I think it would be worth playing around with turning the blue or yellow area in to a large atrium.
Maybe once you've settled on a storyline (i.e. what's getting blown up?) a better name will follow. 
Quote from text_fishBy bottleneck, I just mean any area where a player can expect to come across an enemy if both players are rushing, so this includes any corner or doorway within pretty much the top two thirds of the overview image.
I think it would be worth playing around with turning the blue or yellow area in to a large atrium.
Maybe once you've settled on a storyline (i.e. what's getting blown up?) a better name will follow.
Okay. To be honest, I might see if I can get it playtested first before I make any major changes to the layout.
As for the name, I think the bomb target's gonna be either munitions or nuclear waste, so maybe I'll come up with something along those lines.
When you downloaded the map form the workshop did it run properly with all the custom models and textures? I made sure to pack the bsp with all the things I had made and it came in at about 40mb. I've just checked on the workshop now and it is less than 9mb... :???:
Oh yeah, a playtest is always wise!
Yep, the models downloaded fine. They're all grey, but I'm assuming they're supposed to be at the moment. I didn't notice any custom textures TBH, but also no checkerboard or black surfaces so they must be in there somewhere.
Quote from text_fishOh yeah, a playtest is always wise!
Yep, the models downloaded fine. They're all grey, but I'm assuming they're supposed to be at the moment. I didn't notice any custom textures TBH, but also no checkerboard or black surfaces so they must be in there somewhere.
Yeah, just some temporary textures at the moment. There are a couple of custom textures in there- one of them is the main ramp at the CT spawn. Thanks for letting me know.
I noticed you're trying to make those plastic flaps for some doorways!
I'm also trying to make those. First I used brushes, which work very well but look very ugly, then a model with jiggly bones but getting collision to work so they actually move out of the way of the player seems impossible.
Do you have any idea how you will pursue those flaps? Or will you just have them in a static way so that don't move when walking through them?
I don't think it would look right without Tessellation which (as far as I know) isn't supported by source. Static with no collision (or bulletsoaking-ness) is the best shout imo - func_illusion is probably best for this
Personally I think I would model the flaps with an opening, as if they'd been temporarily pinned back in some fashion.
Quote from TykerI noticed you're trying to make those plastic flaps for some doorways!
I'm also trying to make those. First I used brushes, which work very well but look very ugly, then a model with jiggly bones but getting collision to work so they actually move out of the way of the player seems impossible.Do you have any idea how you will pursue those flaps? Or will you just have them in a static way so that don't move when walking through them?
I'm not sure how I'm going to do the flaps to be honest. I'm not the most skilled modeller/texture artist, and to make ones with those kinds physics properties is a bit ambitious for me I think.
Quote from text_fishPersonally I think I would model the flaps with an opening, as if they'd been temporarily pinned back in some fashion.
That sounds like a good solution. It would a save doing a lot of complex stuff that I know nothing about!
1) Clip shit, I found several places after the playtest ended that you could jump out of without even trying hard.
2) Why is there a green tint to the map? Which was only enhanched by my digital vibrance settings.
3) I forgot which site is which but I think B-Site is the one where you do long range engages. I think it's not as good of a site as A, if you get an awp and maybe a scar then it's not that hard to lock the site down. Weird corners that are mandatory to check while being too exposed to other locations.
4) I remember some time I had no idea where the hell I got shot from, and apparently there is a stair where you can only see the head, and it didn't help that the place was pretty dark, don't know what the location is called, I wasn't a big fan of it.
5) I got the impression that CT's can outmanuever T's pretty easy, it wasn't hard to flank and likewise it wasn't hard to easily get flanked and having no idea what the hell just happend.
6) I found that the chokepoints were weird, but maybe that's just me.
7) This is for your 3D Model(s). That train of yours looks great, very high in polygons which I think is not the end of the world but in that case you should be able to see it, you only see a part of it through the fence and don't get up close and personal with it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). I also think the small rectangular segments in the toll model could be done with a texture, the polys are unecessary and bad optimization
These are just my personal opinions off the top of my head, I might update this comment if I can think of something else.
@MinorThreat if you can post your overview I'll happily annotate it and write up some feedback
Quote from jackophant@MinorThreat if you can post your overview I'll happily annotate it and write up some feedback
Here is the overview:
Quote from VorontsovDisplay More1) Clip shit, I found several places after the playtest ended that you could jump out of without even trying hard.
2) Why is there a green tint to the map? Which was only enhanched by my digital vibrance settings.
3) I forgot which site is which but I think B-Site is the one where you do long range engages. I think it's not as good of a site as A, if you get an awp and maybe a scar then it's not that hard to lock the site down. Weird corners that are mandatory to check while being too exposed to other locations.
4) I remember some time I had no idea where the hell I got shot from, and apparently there is a stair where you can only see the head, and it didn't help that the place was pretty dark, don't know what the location is called, I wasn't a big fan of it.
5) I got the impression that CT's can outmanuever T's pretty easy, it wasn't hard to flank and likewise it wasn't hard to easily get flanked and having no idea what the hell just happend.
6) I found that the chokepoints were weird, but maybe that's just me.
7) This is for your 3D Model(s). That train of yours looks great, very high in polygons which I think is not the end of the world but in that case you should be able to see it, you only see a part of it through the fence and don't get up close and personal with it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). I also think the small rectangular segments in the toll model could be done with a texture, the polys are unecessary and bad optimization
These are just my personal opinions off the top of my head, I might update this comment if I can think of something else.
There's a green tint to the map because I changed the environment light settings but didn't change it back. I didn't think it would be important because I'm just looking to get the layout right at the moment. What are the weird corners that you are talking about at B? Could you point out the areas where you think that the CTs could outmanoeuvre the Ts? I was planning on moving the train model to a place where it would be more visible, but it's not top on my list of priorities at the moment. I was also planning on replacing that part of the barrier with a texture like you suggested, but I'm just looking to get the layout right for now!
[Blocked Image: https://i.imgur.com/plg1zw8.png]
Here you go @MinorThreat, I reckon the changes I've drawn out here are fairly concise, but one thing I can't effectively show is the number of 64 unit boxes. Please do not use these, ever. They are awful and massively unfair. You can use them for self boost jumps, just out of the way of anywhere someone can easily abuse them for super effective cover.
Green areas are somewhere you should add:
Red areas are something you should remove:
The blue lines are all pretty ridiculous sight lines:
The yellow line just highlights a very fast rotate:
Sidenotes:
Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!
