de_worksite [New Update / 30.08.15]

    Hey!

    We (TheLaiku and me) are fairly new mappers and excited to reveal our first competitive defusal map, DE_WORKSITE (Workshop link). Feedback is very important to us, because this is our first map and we hope to learn a lot from it. So please post any recommendations, annotations or criticism!


    1. Update 18.07.15 | Forum Post | Workshop Change Log
    2. Update 30.07.15 | Forum Post | Workshop Change Log
    3. Update 06.08.15 | Forum Post | Workshop Change Log
    4. Update 30.08.15 | Forum Post | Workshop Change Log


    The Terrorists have announced that they are fed up with the bad safety regulations of the city's worksites. The new buildings are known for being insecure and multiple workers have already died or were badly injured. They must bomb one of two targets to stop the construction and show the public what is going on.


    New Screenshots

    The radar image.


    Here are some in-game screenshots of the map. If they don't show up for you, you can also find them in this Imgur album.

    The A bomsite. The Terrorists are entering from the right (not pictured) while the Counter-Terrorists can hold from the scaffolding or inside the site.

    A-long. The A bombsite is entered on the right and T-spawn can be seen in the distance.

    A-short. This area connects middle and the A bombsite on the right.

    CT-spawn is behind the truck. The A bombsite can quickly be entered from here.

    You can see T-spawn and the houses of the city behind it.

    Middle. A-short is entered on the left and you can get to B-long through the right wooden door.

    In front of the B bombsite. Here you can see where the CTs enter the site.

    The B bombsite. The Terrorists enter from the upper or smaller lower entrance. Counter-Terrorists get here from the broken hole or the big entrance next to it.

    The area right in front of the B bombsite.

    B-long is on the left and you can see T-spawn on the right side.


    Edit: We have changed the name from de_construction to de_worksite because we realized that there were already other maps with the same name in this contest.

    We hope you enjoy our map and are excited for your feedback!

    - Pilzsuppe

    Can you update the radar to show hard walls and any entrances to sites? It's a bit hard to get a sense of exactly where entrances are from the topdown you have right now.

    Name's a bit cliché, don't you think? Try and come up with a unique name - one where, if I search it on the workshop, only your map will come up.


    So far, it looks okay, but judging from the radar image, the actual playable level's too small for a competitive defusal map. The average for competitive defusal is anywhere between 3,000 and 4,500 - where's your map at, unit-wise?

    Yeah Shima33 is right, CT spawn and T spawn look way too close to each other. I'm sure u can smoke grenade the other spawn at start ... After this i dont know, your map is original because there is not really "paths" like long lanes, it can be cool if well handed but in my opinion you should use a classic layout.
    Graphically, it's cool.

    Thanks for the feedback everybody, it really helps us out!


    Quote from soultron

    Can you update the radar to show hard walls and any entrances to sites? It's a bit hard to get a sense of exactly where entrances are from the topdown you have right now.

    This radar was just a quick version, we will update it soon to make it look more professional and easier to read.

    Quote from Shima33

    Name's a bit cliché, don't you think? Try and come up with a unique name - one where, if I search it on the workshop, only your map will come up.

    I don't know if you wrote this before or after the name change (there had already been another map called de_construction submitted to the contest, which we overlooked), but I agree that the name is nothing special. It's not final yet, so if you have any suggestions... :)

    Quote from Shima33

    So far, it looks okay, but judging from the radar image, the actual playable level's too small for a competitive defusal map. The average for competitive defusal is anywhere between 3,000 and 4,500 - where's your map at, unit-wise?

    We opted for a smaller level because of time limitations and since we are new mappers we wouldn't quite be able to pull of the attention to detail in a bigger level. The playable area is about 3000x2850, which is indeed small, but I believe this doesn't hinder competitive play too much.

    Quote from Jiro

    I'm sure u can smoke grenade the other spawn at start ... After this i dont know, your map is original because there is not really "paths" like long lanes, it can be cool if well handed but in my opinion you should use a classic layout.

    Overpowered grenade spots are a problem currently, but we have planned to edit the skybox in late development to make it more fair. Also, the map probably won't be undergoing major layout changes since we are pretty far into development. We will consider a more classic layout for our next projects though!

    Quote from TheLaiku

    Also, the map probably won't be undergoing major layout changes since we are pretty far into development.

    You are working on hammer, not on a game or something. You can easily copy and paste the "blocs" that are the core of your maps (Tspawn, CTspawn, A, B, The little rooms near bombsites, the middle) and add some corridors between them, i think the balance would be greatly improved, because right now looks like T can rotate way too fast between bombsites and CT can come from behind really fast aswell, making the gameplay way too nervous for counterstrike.

    + I think you should make the lighting brighter!

    I'll say this about the spawn proximities with respect to grenades: unless you have physical blockers above player height (think Overpass), players are going to hate if they throw grenades and have invisible collision knock them down or impede throw arcs in anyway.

    Come up with a strong tangible, physical justification (props, structural elements, etc.) or really take a long hard think about increasing the distance between spawns somehow.

    Also, I still think you should be in grayblock (instead of detailing, even with placeholder stuff) since there are issues with layout that could require major changes, but that's just my opinion. It probably doesn't matter much now since you're committed, saying that you're "pretty far into development."

    About the name: if you were to develop a stronger narrative reason the Ts want to bomb these sites (maybe one of the sites is a monument being erected that honours a corrupt politician or military general who committed warcrimes, for example) it'd be very easy to come up with a better name as a result. Honestly, I feel that bombing a construction site on the ground feels a bit weak, from a narrative and setting standpoint right now. de_vertigo did your exact concept, but because they staged their level on the top section of a skyscraper that was under construction, the name "vertigo" naturally came about. Just some stuff to consider. You don't have to do exotic stuff like make your construction site above ground, but you could alter small elements, like what is actually being built here and why someone would want to risk their life to bomb it to both provide inspiration for exotic props/depictions and a better name.

    Hope this helps.

    Hello again,

    we are happy to show you our first big update for the map since the announcement!

    Screenshots

    Another view over B-long, this time from T-spawn.

    This is middle, as seen from A-long. Things will probably still change here a lot.


    Change Log 18.07.15 (Workshop Link):

    [*]Added solid wall in middle[*]Added crate at B-long[*]Changed door and wall in middle[*]Removed barrel on B[*]Expanded street at B-long outside the map[*]Added house at A long outside the map[*]Added light and wooden plank for better viability at B long[*]Changed ground texture in middle[*]Removed collision box from some curbs[*]Added many player clips[*]Added new radar[*]Rewrote map story[/list]

    Feedback

    We appreciate your feedback during the week about the layout, but I hope you understand that we won't be able to undergo major changes to the layouts due to time limits. We would be very happy about smaller layout suggestions though!

    Quote from Jiro

    + I think you should make the lighting brighter!

    The light from the sun is imo bright enough, but I have added a small worklight for better visibility at B-long, which is hidden in shadows. If you think of any other spots that are way to dark, please tell us!

    Quote from soultron

    I'll say this about the spawn proximities with respect to grenades: unless you have physical blockers above player height (think Overpass), players are going to hate if they throw grenades and have invisible collision knock them down or impede throw arcs in anyway.

    Come up with a strong tangible, physical justification (props, structural elements, etc.) or really take a long hard think about increasing the distance between spawns somehow.

    We have added a few walls at middle / T-spawn to block nades, but we are not sure if want to put a ceiling above mid. There are already a lot of dark places in the map, but a solid glass ceiling is a possibility.

    Quote from soultron

    About the name: if you were to develop a stronger narrative reason the Ts want to bomb these sites (maybe one of the sites is a monument being erected that honours a corrupt politician or military general who committed warcrimes, for example) it'd be very easy to come up with a better name as a result. Honestly, I feel that bombing a construction site on the ground feels a bit weak, from a narrative and setting standpoint right now. de_vertigo did your exact concept, but because they staged their level on the top section of a skyscraper that was under construction, the name "vertigo" naturally came about. Just some stuff to consider. You don't have to do exotic stuff like make your construction site above ground, but you could alter small elements, like what is actually being built here and why someone would want to risk their life to bomb it to both provide inspiration for exotic props/depictions and a better name.

    Hope this helps.

    The story has been changed to something to be a bit more serious: The reason for the Ts to bomb the construction site are the bad safety regulations and the death of multiple workers. We are planning to add blood decals and more detail to the places those accidents happened at.


    The update will hopefully have improved some things for you, and we are again looking forward to your reactions!

    - Pilzsuppe

    We are back with our second update!

    Screenshots

    The new CT spawn. The brick house is gone and a playground, a truck and a dumpster was added. The small house and the crane was moved to here.

    Middle as seen from CT spawn. The electrical box was removed and the wood wall is thinner now.

    A long. The house has been refined and interior furniture was added.

    T spawn. Three houses were added here.

    Change Log 30.07.15 (Workshop Link)

    CT spawn

    • Added police truck
    • Removed brick house
    • Moved crane and added load
    • Moved small house

    Middle

    • Made wood wall thinner
    • Removed electrical box

    A short

    • Fixed self-boost spots
    • Changed gate

    B long + B bombsite

    • Added blood decals
    • Retextured container on street

    Outside map

    • Added playground next to CT spawn
    • Added house behind middle / CT spawn
    • Added detail in house next to A long
    • Added additional house at A long
    • Added street behind T spawn and A long
    • Added three houses behind T spawn
    • Added detail in house at B long / T spawn
    • Added house behind water towers

    Overall

    • Added roof textures for spectators
    • Added many more playerclips
    • Fixed many spots where bomb got stuck
    • Removed more collision boxes from curbs
    • Fixed bomb site names on radar

    - Pilzsuppe

    Looks very good. Will add to my workshop and give it a run through. But honestly, it looks very dark. It makes me wonder if your monitor is set up properly. You should consider boosting it or playability will take a hit. Just look at the in-game maps.

    Quote from biXen

    Looks very good. Will add to my workshop and give it a run through. But honestly, it looks very dark. It makes me wonder if your monitor is set up properly. You should consider boosting it or playability will take a hit. Just look at the in-game maps.

    Thanks for the feedback! I have set my in game brightness to full, but I don't think there is anything wrong with my monitor. You are already the second person suggesting this though, so we will definitely consider increasing the brightness in the next update.


    - Pilzsuppe

    We are happy to bring you our third update!

    Screenshots

    CT spawn on the left and middle on the right. The wall to short was detailed and CT spawn was changed a bit. You can already see the 3D skybox.

    A more clear look at the 3D skybox behind B long.

    The new house at A long.

    Change Log 06.08.15 (Workshop Link)

    CT spawn

    • Replaced playground with house
    • Added additional container
    • Added detail to the wall towards A short


    T spawn

    • Added van
    • Added bricks on ground
    • Added interior in house


    A site

    • Added fire and dustcloud effect after explosion


    A long

    • Fixed toilet doors
    • Removed railing from roof
    • Added detail to the second house


    A short

    • Removed door
    • Fixed entrance from middle (you had to crouch from one side)


    Middle

    • Added pipe to wall
    • Added cinder blocks and sheetrock on scaffolding outside B
    • Added extra box to prevent peeking on the stack of boxes near CT


    B long

    • Removed two wooden posts for better movement / visibility
    • Moved police barriers
    • Made car glass more transparent
    • Added ropes to streetlights


    B short

    • Added pipe to wall
    • Added piece of broken wall and bricks


    B site

    • Moved wooden crate
    • Added fire and dustcloud effect after explosion


    Overall

    • More player clips
    • Increased brightness
    • Added ambient sound
    • General optimization
    • Added 3D skybox
    • Changed fog to be less aggressive
    • Added wind and tree sway
    • Improved static reflections

    Feedback

    Quote from biXen

    But honestly, it looks very dark. It makes me wonder if your monitor is set up properly. You should consider boosting it or playability will take a hit.

    We have now increased the brightness a bit, tell us if you like it!


    - Pilzsuppe

    We just uploaded the last update before the contest closes!

    This update is just the last bit of polish for the map, so there are no screenshots of any big changes. You can find a bunch of updated screenshots in the main post though!

    Change Log 30.08.15 (Workshop Link)

    CT spawn

    • Added telephone poles outside map

    A long

    • Removed a few windows
    • Changed tower outside map

    A short

    • Changed wall texture

    Middle

    • Added additional barrels near B entrance

    B long

    • Changed tree so it sways
    • Added sparks to light
    • Retextured stairs
    • Removed hut behind water towers

    B site

    • Added cable
    • Added explosion to floodlight after bomb explosion
    • Added dustmotes to lights

    Overall

    • Updated radar
    • General optimization
    • Added steam to chimneys
    • Added more player clips
    • Removed collisions for most props outside the map


    - Pilzsuppe

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