[WIP] de_perish

I realise it's a night time map, but it's still a little dark.

Your pathing looks quite complicated as well (and redundant if Ts can go through that connector on the bottom left corner).

What's the theme meant to be? I'm seeing a lot of different coloured houses, a boat, and a rather large church?

The buildings look very basic and blocky, you might wanna open up a few official maps to see some techniques and such, or just in general open up a new .vmf to practice making buildings, I hope it helps

Hello Promulle,

I went through your map and besides some of the other issues people have stated, i found these to take from the map in a negative way

> The underground area is just confusing and redundant, it creates too many hideyholes and pathways that are un-necessary, and makes the whole idea of pushing a site confusing. I think either refine it to a one way path, or remove it completely.

> B site has a huge bomb plant zone and you have about 4-5 entrances into the site, holding it is a nightmare.

>There is a secret tunnel that is half done, or something... I'm really not sure but its behind the silver door.

> The two ladder access's, one on top of a glass window and the other on top of the veranda, serve no purpose what so ever and are pretty much pointless. It's nice if you want it there as a scenic value, but don't make it possible to climb them.

> To many boxes and cover scattered around.

> Buildings are simple and not much to them, also the windows and edges are all non-solid. Door ways were also very large and B site you could just throw grenades over the walls.

> A site has a strange wood wall to break to go up into the top area. Don't mind this idea but the wood itself is just way to big.

> Timings were very strange and didn't really have much balance due to all the pathways.

> The sky-box is just too dark and half the map is still very dark, especially the water and little detail areas at T and CT Spawn, think about changing the map to a daytime or dusk version, or adding more lighting to the map.

> The area just in-front of T spawn with the boxes that is blocked and leads no where is also pointless. I think you set up a wood window for wall-bangs but it really isnt going to be a viable option. Either turn it into a scenic thing you can run pass, or just remove it all together.

> The little saving area to the left of T spawn is also pointless. It will just turn into a camping den of love and sex.

I know this may sound over critical but I'm just trying to help before you go any further, I think your best bet at this stage would be to take what works, and what you are happy with and look at downsizing it a bit, maybe run over some of the helpful tips in Jacks Bible, and then try creating a grey-box version of the map that is a bit cleaner and smoother.

Hope it helps, Goodluck!

Quote from Promulle

• (I usually play on a brightness setting 1.6, on which the map does look fine for me)
• And the theme and artwork is mostly the greatest weakness of the map so far. I wanted it to appear old, but still not boring, so i used different colored brick textures. The floor should be some kind of stone, just like the walls.
• With the 3d skybox building, which you identified as church, it is meant to be a castle, but working with 1/16 scale makes it a bit hard to be precise in design. (in my oppinion, with my mapping skills). But using bigger scales would cost performance as far as I know, so i stick to 1/16.
• EDIT : The boat makes sense in my oppinion, because it is at t-spawn, which so provides a way terrorists found thier way there.

I've broken your quote down into edited chunks so it's easier to focus on my comments:

• I can't remember what the default brightness is, but leave it on that when mapping otherwise you will have replication issues for other people (look ok to you and pitch black to everyone else).
• "Appear old" is not a theme, it's barely even a concept for a theme. Find a setting you want your map to be in, and then you have all the reference photos and images you can dream of. I even used google maps street view for some screenshots for my own reference. It will help there be a more consistent theme. DO NOT (EVER), make your theme up, seriously ever. Even if it's based on some fantastical, alien planet, you still want references for things you want to try and do.
• Build it full scale in a separate vmf file and copy it into your main map skybox and use the scale/rotate tool, shortcut "ctrl+m". select the scale option and make the value for x, y and z all "0.16" [ 0.0625 = 1/16 ], voila! However, I think the problem you're having with the church/castle, is due to lack of reference, not your brushwork ability.
• The boat makes sense to you but it could just as easily be a van or car. Refer to my previous point about a theme and then choose the vehicle that makes most sense. RIght now, a boat does not.

As a side note, you shouldn't "need to decide to keep something or not". You need to be strict with the layout, if it's a gangrenous limb you chop it off rather than letting it negatively impact the rest of the map. If you have too many routes already then remove it, if you don't have enough and it's a problem redesign it or look for an alternative solution.

Quote

[*]The boat makes sense to you but it could just as easily be a van or car. Refer to my previous point about a theme and then choose the vehicle that makes most sense. RIght now, a boat does not.[/list]

I really don't mean to upset you, but are you totally serious? A replacement of a boat to van, while there is all water around it? ...How did the terrorists get to the map? By a van driving underwater? "The Mystery machine" from scooby doo :D?

And I think this change is just more of a decoration than a useful addition to the gameplay.

Quote from Thund3rb1rd

I really don't mean to upset you, but are you totally serious? A replacement of a boat to van, while there is all water around it? ...How did the terrorists get to the map? By a van driving underwater? "The Mystery machine" from scooby doo :D?

And I think this change is just more of a decoration than a useful addition to the gameplay.

Before the message following yours, show me where the water is in any of those screenshots?

Regardless, even if I had seen the water, what's stopping the replacement of the water with another form of boundary involving a road?

It's feedback, whether it's aimed at the aesthetics or the gameplay why does it matter?

Quote from Thund3rb1rd

I really don't mean to upset you, but are you totally serious? A replacement of a boat to van, while there is all water around it? ...How did the terrorists get to the map? By a van driving underwater? "The Mystery machine" from scooby doo :D?

And I think this change is just more of a decoration than a useful addition to the gameplay.

Quote from jackophant

Before the message following yours, show me where the water is in any of those screenshots?

Regardless, even if I had seen the water, what's stopping the replacement of the water with another form of boundary involving a road?

It's feedback, whether it's aimed at the aesthetics or the gameplay why does it matter?

I was under the impression that jackophant was refering to the fact that there was no real indication for the boat to dock there. Besides the water being incredibly dark, i think he meant that the fencing and concrete didn't really give the direction that ct's arrived to a dock. You have to create a little story for the player, make it seem like they just arrived to the location, make it real, make me emotional.

Also on the topic of spawn points and there relevance in the area. Why are CT's emerging from a church?

Getting better, I know how hard it is, my level is still a blocky mess

As a new mapper myself but somewhat experienced 3d hobbyist I would just like to give you an advice for detailing. Almost no edges in real life are sharp / completely square, so a lot of your details look very blocky, e.g. your A spot screenshot a couple of pictures above. If you are not grayboxing you are probably better off rounding some things off right away Also references are alpha omega like jackophant touched on. The scale of windows to doors to building in that A site picture is off.

Quote from jackophant

• Build it full scale in a separate vmf file and copy it into your main map skybox and use the scale/rotate tool, shortcut "ctrl+m". select the scale option and make the value for x, y and z all "0.16", voila! However, I think the problem you're having with the church/castle, is due to lack of reference, not your brushwork ability

Hello sir,
Just to correct it a bit, 1/16 != 0.16
1/16 = 0.0625 (that's what you rescale the brushes to in hammer for skybox)
and in percentage, 1/16 = 6.25% (If you create custom models for skybox. Make them the normal size in 3ds max or whatever you use and then rescale them to 6.25%. Alternatively, you can create a normal sized model and compile it with "$scale 0.0625" line in qc file.)

@GenoCide you are indeed correct, rushed and rusty maths from myself spreading false information. I've corrected my OP in case anyone happens to come across it again. Thanks