[WIP] De_Dynasty

    (Oct-31-2015 v.b7) ALMOST FINISHED! :D

    I'd really appreciate any feedback on how to improve the aesthetics of the map. I have a lot more screenshots in the workshop link below. Gotta polish map up before Nov 9 deadline!

    Steam workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi…s/?id=545743980

    [Blocked Image: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/6500024143…30DB39A5B423CF/][Blocked Image: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/6500024143…91BFD5C7BAD2A4/]

    [Blocked Image: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/6500024143…E1C978800545D8/]

    (I was told cherry blossom tree could be improved so I'm looking to replace or remake it in the distant future)

    [Blocked Image: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/6500024143…9B59CECA3FC9F2/]


    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/iEsfJNl.jpg]

    Haven't gotten the chance to run around it myself yet but I really liked your video showing off some of the really interesting grenade play you have tried implementing and I really like to see that you put so much effort into trying to work more grenade tactics into your layout. Best of luck to you in the competition and I must say I am pretty excited to see this map evolve already. Hopefully I'll be able to test out timings and gameplay in a bit and post some real feedback.

    Bumped. I would definitely appreciate some feedback on the color and lighting and whatnot before I fully commit to making the assets for the environment.

    Quote from Vaya

    inside lighting is far too dark and orange imo

    I agree about the orange. I think the orangeness has less to do with lighting and more to do with the orange/gold textures though so I'll have to go through and touch up the textures.

    For the darkness, I am comparing lighting of screenshot to in-game. I think i'm either going crazy or partially blind... :? The scene on the right is a bit brighter, right? I guess it wont matter though if I just give a little bit more intensity to the lights.

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/rMcSPT7.jpg]


    Is the contrast of the light colors and brown too jarring? I put a lot of the "white plaster to brown wood" around the map. I like it but not sure if it's working for others.

    [Blocked Image: http://matiasstella.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/DSC_8577.jpg]

    using the above as reference I would maybe suggest lighting up/simplifying the floor and allowing more light to bounce?

    Quote

    The scene on the right is a bit brighter, right?

    Yes it's slightly brighter but I think the same problem exists.too many dark spots.

    Quote

    Is the contrast of the light colors and brown too jarring?

    I don't think so. fix the lighting/floor and it should look better.

    The picture vaya sourced feels much more open, light and airy in comparison to your screenshots which feel quite dark and cramped.

    maybe get some more natural light in?

    Quote from leplubodeslapin

    mat_drawgray 1

    At the risk of sounding stupid, can you please clarify the proper use for this? (not "everything goes grey")

    Is this how people make the grey radar overlays?

    @jackophant It's just a method to work on your lighting. I don't know if it's the thing used for the radar overlay, they are just made using image editing softwares i think.
    As you said it changes all the textures to the same medium grey color (well that's the theory, in facts it's not exactly the same grey everywhere but it can still help), the good thing is that this command keeps the specular and normalmaps i think, and transparency on textures.

    And if you use very simple colors like that, it's always easier to understand the lighting and fix it, to see which area should be brighter or darker, to place your light entities where they are needed only. Theorically, you should almost be able to do your whole lighting without any texture on your map.

    I took the opportunity to scribble over the radar to show some things...

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/VvDC0D9.jpg]

    imo B was awful. Everywhere I tried to hold I was shot in the back if I didn't die trying to get onto the site. Or was killed by a shitty lurker (mark...) at that pink scribble area. CTs get there way too slow for that camping area to even be necessary, so an aggressive CT push that way is rendered entirely obsolete even though it's a mission to get to the other bombsite.

    I've shown in orange the pathing into B for Ts and highlighted some angles that can be held through it. The pink line is a problem as Ts can be there watching CTs cross their own bombsite, so we can't actually safely get into the thing reliably to play it. The green sightline felt like it should have been more powerful for CTs, but after having to climb the ladder and get on the bridge most Ts had already scooted past. That blue sightline is absolutely terrible.

    The stones in the water...

    I have no feedback for A as if I had gone there, there would have been no CTs at B and I left before I had a chance to, but I'm sure the other 9 CTs who kept going there will have plenty of feedback for you.

    Congratulations on the amount of custom content in the map, but I feel gameplay has slipped by the wayside, I don't find the building to be believable (it feels way too random to be a structured piece of korean architecture), and a lot of the textures feel quite TF2ish.

    It felt like a lot of the areas were designed *just* to push a certain visual idea- stones in the water- little bridges and tranquil gardens etc - at the detraction of map flow and general gameplay.

    • The map was confusing layout wise even a couple of rounds in - I was leaving CT spawn thinking to myself 'this SEEMS like the same path I took before, not 100% sure though.
    • Pathing is weird in general- look at the orange route in jacks SS above, WTF is going on there?
    • Too easy to meet Ts in a way they weren't expecting. Sideon/behind/above. Surprise positioning on counterstrike maps should be a rare occurrence but 100% checkable - think along the lines of the stackboost on cache. Terrorists can check this spot but might not expect it. Some of the encounters on your map you can't really check due to timings- you would have to check to spots at once to stand a chance. I'm rambling a bit but hopefully you understand.
    • dark and unreadable in areas inside. you know this already though

    ----

    I like the idea of the map but think it needs an overhaul to work well within counterstrike

    For this map to work you need to simplify the design massively. I have something I think could work well in regards to overall layout- add me on steam to discuss if you're open to the idea of massive change to make the theme work better. I can post it here too if you want.

    Quote from jackophant

    imo B was awful. Everywhere I tried to hold I was shot in the back if I didn't die trying to get onto the site. Or was killed by a shitty lurker (mark...) at that pink scribble area. CTs get there way too slow for that camping area to even be necessary, so an aggressive CT push that way is rendered entirely obsolete even though it's a mission to get to the other bombsite.

    I've shown in orange the pathing into B for Ts and highlighted some angles that can be held through it. The pink line is a problem as Ts can be there watching CTs cross their own bombsite, so we can't actually safely get into the thing reliably to play it. The green sightline felt like it should have been more powerful for CTs, but after having to climb the ladder and get on the bridge most Ts had already scooted past. That blue sightline is absolutely terrible.

    The stones in the water...

    Congratulations on the amount of custom content in the map, but I feel gameplay has slipped by the wayside, I don't find the building to be believable (it feels way too random to be a structured piece of korean architecture), and a lot of the textures feel quite TF2ish.

    Pink line should not happen once I tweak the timings.

    Not to argue against your points but I noticed in the demo that none of the CT's on your team ever guarded mid which often led to uncontested mid-to-B plays. Ideally, CT's would be holding control of that mid area to prevent or buffer from that. It's similar to de_cache's vent-to-B where if you concede map control of mid, T's gain easy access to an aggressive route into the site. I will work on the timings though to let CT's set up just a bit faster.

    Anything specific about what is unbelievable/random about the building and the textures being TF2ish? Not sure what you mean by that.

    I went mid once, and I found it entirely by accident. It had a couple of CTs ducked behind a balcony which was being shot through. I left and went straight back to B iirc. As Vaya said (in a personal chat), you should probably ask yourself why no one went mid.

    While 10v10 playtests do not foster the best gaming experience, I found the map difficult to navigate. The constant CTs going A and no one really on mid is probably testament to that. Cts have to run towards A and then hook off suddenly to mid, if they don't they're all in A, or they could go B.

    This isn't Dust2 go towards B to be in mid which is quite open. On your map you have to really find mid that's the problem, and I don't think it's obvious enough.

    I don't find the layout believable because exactly what I said before...


    Quote

    it feels way too random to be a structured piece of korean architecture

    but to clarify, this is meant to be a house, and a few gardens and it currently feels more like a cave system the way it's looping back on itself and cross over and winding around but you've just applied a korean theme to it retrospectively. I generally associate what you're doing more with japanese than korean architecture, but I don't know enough about the cultures to comment with any authority.

    The textures being TF2ish is a separate matter, and imo it's because of the flat colours being used. They feel like they're missing a layer of grime or texture to make them feel rough and more realistic.

    I agree the flow isn't the best for CT's who are new to the map (like mirage's mid window for CT's where most casual players will just run straight past the vent). I already made some changes when I noticed this during the first half. Some people said B needed another route which is why I added in the mid to B route and I'm hoping I can keep it in some form.

    My mistake, I thought you were saying the props and whatnot for the building were unbelievable/random, not the layout. I agree with that but I also think so long as I bolster the aesthetics (i.e. those "caves" are going to be "ondols" which are cellars used for central heating buildings. Youre right though, I'll probably open up some areas to be outside.

    @kinggambit Thanks for the 2 screenshots with grey textures. I think it's quite obvious, and i'm pretty sure that everyone would prefer the look and readability of your map with grey textures, it looks much better.
    So the problem is basically about your textures, you must standardize them. Keep in mind that when you do your textures, it's how you're supposed to see them with a bright white lighting, and your textures are probably too dark therefore the lighting can't affect them at all since it's already almost black. It's not just about increasing the brightness of your materials, you really must standardize them and if you really have to use a dark material somewhere, don't use it on big plane areas, add some contrast.

    And maybe you can increase the brightness of your lights, even with grey textures it's true that it's still quite dark.

    I hope that when you visited your map with the mat_dragray command, you realised the potential your map has and that you're lighting appears to be much better.

    Quote from leplubodeslapin

    @kinggambit Thanks for the 2 screenshots with grey textures. I think it's quite obvious, and i'm pretty sure that everyone would prefer the look and readability of your map with grey textures, it looks much better.
    So the problem is basically about your textures, you must standardize them. Keep in mind that when you do your textures, it's how you're supposed to see them with a bright white lighting, and your textures are probably too dark therefore the lighting can't affect them at all since it's already almost black. It's not just about increasing the brightness of your materials, you really must standardize them and if you really have to use a dark material somewhere, don't use it on big plane areas, add some contrast.

    And maybe you can increase the brightness of your lights, even with grey textures it's true that it's still quite dark.

    I hope that when you visited your map with the mat_dragray command, you realised the potential your map has and that you're lighting appears to be much better.

    Thanks for the feedback. Never knew about mat_drawgray! Seems really helpful. I'll start increasing the lighting around the map using that method.

    Sorry, can you clarify a bit on "standardizing textures"? Standardizing = Lighter/more consistent materials?

    I think I know what you mean though:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ux5J68L.jpg]

    Oh also, right now, I've just tried to keep the walls light and the ceilings/floor dark. Is that a bad way to approach the contrast? i.e. the image below, I've tried to keep the lighter colors in the walls and floor while just leaving the dark wood material at the top. Is the dark wood ceiling too much?

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/vUTW9GD.jpg]

    Sorry for bad English but It doesn't looks like Korean Palace

    It's more like something from japan and your reference pictures are also looks like Japan

    The differences between them are miner and you don't have to change if you don't mind but I hope you know Asians are likely to distinguish them and feel bad about the misused theme (not me though)

    Quote from Badstomach

    Sorry for bad English but It doesn't looks like Korean Palace

    It's more like something from japan and your reference pictures are also looks like Japan

    The differences between them are miner and you don't have to change if you don't mind but I hope you know Asians are likely to distinguish them and feel bad about the misused theme (not me though)

    My first art pass I heavily referenced Gyeongbok and ‎Changdeok but they have very noisy and strong color palletes, round pillars, etc. which weren't as conducive for Counter-strike:

    [Blocked Image: https://travelthayer.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/gyeongbokgung-147-2.jpg]

    [Blocked Image: http://www.thecomicandsans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/400482_645747459772_2103947_33739088_2145252227_n.jpg]

    so I am currently trying out more of the korean buddhist temples and hanoks like namsangul with the white plaster + gold/brown wood:

    [Blocked Image: http://www.blukotour.com/files/attach/images/6730/224/026/d48c72e6be0e1db16cc48766e1613b81.jpg]

    However, thanks for the honest input. I'm looking at some buddhist temples in japan and you're right! I'm designing a palace so I should probably use the palaces as references. I will definitely focus more during my next art pass to get the architecture and colors down to suit the korean feel! I'll try again to add the reds and greens more and touch up on the facades.

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