[CSGO] de_cargo

    Hi guys! English is not my first language so please be gentle.


    About the me:

    I'm learning hammer from early 2008 when I started to play Counter Strike 1.6. I was mapping for all of the GoldSRC and Source engine. Never really tested my maps, they were casual to the limit. One sided to the limit and sometimes broken to the limit. Cargo is my attempt to create very smooth (gameplay vise) map for competitive environment. I want to hear your feedback. I want you to be a part of the map making process. I want to learn more than I learned in those 7 years.

    At the end of the process I want to write down everything I learned and discover with one big .pdf file about this map. I want to include as much data I will be able to gather and make it easy for other peoples to read and understand.


    About the map:

    Cargo is a map set in the theme of communist military logistic base that is going to be demolished due to dissolution of the Soviet Union.


    Overview:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/TUJxLK3.jpg]


    Mid area:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/tIufLsz.jpg]


    Bombsite B:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/vpshqXU.jpg]


    Playtesting:

    The feedback from 7.04 was a little hard for me to understand. First, it was my very first attempt to playtest a map so it was hard time filtering useful info.

    Someone said that map is to small, other guy said it was too big in some parts. But results are clearly understandable. The A bomb, CT spawn and Mid area were too close to each other allowing Ct's to gain control over whole half of the map in first seconds. As you can see from screens above mid is too long and Ct literally spawn on it. I made few changes to it today and looking forward to test it again. Nobody really complained about bombsite B. So I wont change it too much.


    PS Doors were screwed by 128 tick server sorry guys

    This is how de_cargo should look like:


    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ktmJazo.jpg]


    This is just a raw presentation of what is in my mind.

    I was going to write about how my map would be different from cache but decided to not to do this. Will post some screenshots so you guys can clearly see how its going to look.

    Hey Lizard here my feedback about your map I played a couple of days ago.


    First of all in general I think the map feels good.

    Personal I was quite pleased with the overall idea of how you try to build the map.

    The elevations, corridors and the bombsites feel all naturally placed etc.


    But the exact placing of them was bothering me a little why I was playing.

    I know CT's should be faster on a site then T's, so they can position themself.

    This was okay, but the entryways or the chokepoints (wich where the same for me)

    were quite CT sided. As a CT I felt like nobody could actually get me ( wich resulted in many

    pointless rushes of CT's) and as T I couldn't get any foot on the site without getting a bullet in my head.


    To counter this, the T's normally have some space to rotate or set up some sort of tactic, usually involving the mid area.

    Now I think that was the problem with the current layout of the map.

    I know and i like what you have tried with the very quick possibility to snipe from CT spawn into the windows at T,

    but this also resolves in Ct getting mid area almost instantly, wich gave them antoher huge advantage over the attacking team.

    T's going to A where most of the times flanked by CT's coming from mid, the other way around,

    T's who tried to enter the mid section from the garage most in the back of mid, usually got insta-sniped.


    My idea about the map is to give the T's a quicker way to the mid area and the CT's a slower entry time.

    I think this would T's some manoeuvrability and a possibilty to attack (B) site from more then 1 angle.


    Well that was my main think I would to say.


    next are some smaller things like the props on B site, I think the placement is quite good, but

    the type of props make it a bit awkward at some times ( read in, I can see feet under them etc)


    the railing at the stairs just right at T spawn is a bit too high. If you jump over them (wich would be quite common as a T wants to rush towards B)

    you take a small amount of fall damage. Something I felt quite annoyed about when I played.


    Then site A felt a little bit dark and maybe a bit claustrofobic ( maybe because of the darkness)

    I would suggest to make the roof a little bit higher.


    I guess that are the most important things I wanted to say.


    I'm giving this feedback , probably to a far more expierienced mapper then I'm, but

    as this is the purpose of the community I hope it can help you in some way ( or maybe not)


    Greetz Tomato

    Thanks for this insightful feedback.

    Map changed alot from alpha2. I decided to start from scratch whole "A bombsite" part of the map.

    Ct can no longer control mid from very begining of the round.

    This is how I changed mid:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/fPgH8Yi.jpg]


    I decided to shorten it ad add some props on the middle so it's not so open. This also allows for CQB combat aswell.

    Next changes. I changed CT spawn. This adds 3.5 seconds for Ct to arrive at both bombsites.


    CT spawn:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/EMny6kT.jpg]


    Change to Ct side of the B bomsite:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/r31uO7S.jpg]


    And finally T spawn area:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/p6dPIl0.jpg]

    I'm not sure about this. Need to test it with players. The area with fences and crates on the right of the stairs allows T's to snipe CT's and gain a little bit control on the mid. It is a replacement for this window that ppl cried alot


    Thank you for those warm words. Too bad the only experience I have is the editor experience. This is why I want to learn to communicate with this lovely community and listen to those guys.

    Ok, so the map is almost ready for another playtesting.


    New screenshots:


    Bombsite A:
    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/dO5Yte1.jpg]

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/QMO9Tab.jpg]


    Mid area:
    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/Nv494t2.jpg]

    Added route from mid to A bombsite.

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/G1QuI2M.jpg]


    I still have some work on this "bombsite A" side of the map. I'm not really satisfied with the bombsite but I can figure it right now.

    I will release alpha3 as soon as possible so you guys can play it and give me some feedback before playtesting on 23.04
    Regards!

    Gameplay looks like it will be similar to De_train now. Can you shoot/crouch under the train carts? Something you should think about now before the playtest.

    Quote from Vaya

    Gameplay looks like it will be similar to De_train now. Can you shoot/crouch under the train carts? Something you should think about now before the playtest.

    No you cant. They are very low .

    I think you should try squeeze in one more version before the playtest:-


    -Lack of clipping on B site. turn off collision on the lights at the back.


    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/e0FsJZG.jpg]


    you can currently get right on to that awning and light.


    - Stupidly one sided LOS down mid still exists.


    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/PEMv1fQ.jpg]


    - A only has 2 paths into it. One is a squeeky door. Seems a bit easy for CTs to defend?


    - Roof access at A.


    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/lmPpW5G.jpg]


    Only area not clipped at A. Is it intended?


    - you can get quite high on the Spools/junk at A


    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/CZanEQq.jpg]


    - Another note, you don't need to clip every thing in the game you don't want someone standing on. You can also turn off collisions. this is less costful and keeps your mapfile as neat as possible.


    Opinions-


    • Detail so far is really nice
    • Too many doors! you don't need 1/2 the doors you've added
    • Much improved on the last version I played- Can't really comment too much on layout until a playtest though.

    Hi Vaya.

    Thank you for feedback []
    Didn't though about disabling collision. You are right this is less costful.

    Now to the suggestions.

    • I will fix those wooden planks to cover whole window but I want one window to be open. T have a spot to cover mid as well. They can get there quickly almost at the same time Ct will be at the open window.
    • The roof access on A site is to compensate very hard approach to the bombsite. If you can get to bombsite A quickly you can boost player to get to the roof.
    • I need to clip this junk part on bombsite A. I was thinking that is too high to jump there.

    The problem with roof access is that I'm pretty sure the CTs can use it too. Instead of balancing the area you've made it more difficult for the Ts.


    if you can find a way of making it more obvious to Ts incoming without affecting the rotates from the other site?

    Quote from Vaya

    if you can find a way of making it more obvious to Ts incoming without affecting the rotates from the other site?

    Can You rephrase that?

    make it easier for Terrorists to see the roof area when coming from T spawn compared to CTs coming from the other bombsite. Just now I would say it's the opposite.

    If you want to boost there as CT you need 2 player boost so its a little hard to do when T's are rushing A. There is a clear vision if this roof from T route to bombsite A.

    Feedback remains largely the same as my last post. I'd probably add the below though


    • Dodgy timings. T spawn needs to be further back. so the CTs have set up time.
    • We found a bullshit plant on A. you can plant in between 3-4 props at the back of site.
    • Props on B make gameplay annoying. remove/replace nitro boxes for example.

    Vaya and I were talking about the map throughout the test so I know we agree on the state of the map.


    I'd also like to emphasise the props have caused a lot of very bad sight lines at a lot of angles. You should really go over the map very carefully and look for them if you want the prop distribution you currently have.


    I do like A bombsite, but I do think the building is unnecessary. CTs can also use the fence to peek into mid and use the green dumpster to counter boost. I think the site is already a hard chokepoint, so allowing CTs to gain that height/aggressive advantage seems unfair.

    Hi guys!
    I wrote down feedback from playtest.
    @Vayva I didn't fix those issues you pointed out because I wanted to see what people will do with those and how to modify to good use.

    In alpha4 I will fix timings, remake B site a little bit and of course remove access to roof on bombsite A.
    I also noticed that Ct can easily kill through connector, T that are waiting for entry on A.

    Quote from LizardPL

    I also noticed that Ct can easily kill through connector, T that are waiting for entry on A.


    Yes they can! I used that to fairly good effect. I think the problem with mid right now is that it's a no man's land. It is the lowest point on the map, and a lot of places look down into it making it very risky to use. Right now it favours CTs, but if you could give T a better hold on it, it wouldn't be such a problem.

    I'm making heatmaps right now. There are very useful in this process.

    ~~EDIT~~

    Ok, I'm done with fixing for today. I fixed almost everything that you pointed out. Timings are ok now. Moved T spawn a little bit backward and changed CT spawn so they now have faster route to bombsite A.
    Bombsite A looks like this now:
    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/CWMKgmg.jpg]


    I decided to delete all those pesky crates and add some new ones.
    Regards!

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