de_neutron

    EDIT 19 May 2015: Spoilered out the original post, go to for latest updates.


    According to your branding concept:


    "Versteckt Wald" is wrong. We would say "Versteckter Wald". But to be honest, this just sounds odd^^ In english it sounds nice, but in german not really. I'd rather call it "Black Forest Research Reactor". That would make sense, because we have a region in Germany which is called "Black Forest". So "Forschungsreaktor Schwarzwald" would be way more real.

    In my university, however, is a research reactor. But they call it "Forschungs-Neutronenquelle" instead. I think both terms are correct, so you could just choose which one you want. If you have more questions regarding german words etc, you could just add me on Steam if you want.

    Gonna post what Lajron mentioned in chat: Middle has way too many entrances. With the vents its I think 7. That are too many corners / spots to check.

    Quote from El_Exodus

    [cut] If you have more questions regarding german words etc, you could just add me on Steam if you want.


    It appears I really messed up the translations then. Friend request inbound.


    Quote from Vaya

    how much of this is custom textures? It looks great (if a bit empty and clean just now)

    Quote from MrTwoVideoCards

    Yeah I think your textures are coming in a little too flat. [cut]


    The majority of the textures in those screenshots are custom, or modified versions of Valves textures. MrTwoVideoCards, are there any textures in particular that you think need the most improvement?


    Quote from MrTwoVideoCards

    [cut] Also looking at the layout, there seems, or at least feels like there are some unneeded locations to wander around in.

    Quote from Nakroma

    Gonna post what Lajron mentioned in chat: Middle has way too many entrances. With the vents its I think 7. That are too many corners / spots to check.


    I was a bit afraid that the map had too many areas and routes, thank you both for confirming my fears. Do either of you think there are any paths of areas that can be removed completely? If not, I'm sure I'll come up with something to simplify the map.


    Thanks to all of your for your honesty and feedback, it's greatly appreciated.

    "Forschungsreaktor Geheimwald" would be acceptable in the sense of hidden forest as a project name for the reactor. It could also be a local forest somewhere. Using real location names in games, especially related to Germany is not a good idea tbh.


    Layout wise it looks pretty good with a 'little' advantage on the CT side, as they can cut all paths to B for the Ts.

    So I've looked at the demo that was recorded from the playtest the other day. A huge thankyou to everyone who contributed, and left feedback, it was terribly useful. It seems there were some fairly common complaints about the map:

    • The map is confusing, with lots of paths and corners to check.
    • The window at mid is OP.
    • There some discussion about the vents over B, some thought they were OP, others not.
    • A site is too confusing, and needs more places to hold as CT.
    • There is a lot of glass to be broken.
    • Fnuggi is OP.

    I've taken a lot of the advice onboard, and have made great lengths to simplify the layout of the map:

    • I've removed completely the window, and the lower path from mid-to-B. Next to the CT-stairs, there is now another set of stairs going down, which leads to old mid-to-B path.
    • Vents have been removed entirely, and the mid entrance to vents has been simplified. To compensate, I'm working on making B site a bit bigger overall, to give more places to hide as T and as CT.
    • A site room has been redesigned, with the back corner behind the spool being dragged back to form an irregular hexagon. This should solve the problem of there being nowhere to hold as CT, and to act as a point of reference for understanding the layout of A site.
    • Redesigned tunnels, so that T's get a bit of breathing space before being seen by CTs.
    • Redesigned the checkerboard room, so that its further back, and T's can hold a bit before committing to site.
    • Doubled the thickness of all the concrete walls, to slow down those wallbangs.
    • Moved the double doors back down to under the red and yellow cafe area, to make it harder for CTs to push there.
    • The library has been removed entirely.

    I still have more to go though, my current to do list includes:

    • Improving the visual cues, to make navigating the map easier (arrows, stripes etc)
    • Rethinking lots of the glass, I now agree that there was quite a lot.
    • Making it possible to solo-boost (with a difficult jump) to heaven on A site.
    • Making Fnuggi less OP (ideas for this one?)


    Quote from Deathy

    Using real location names in games, especially related to Germany is not a good idea tbh.

    Quote from Nakroma

    Geheimwald sound still really bad in german. just use Schwarzwald

    Quote from esspho

    I agree with Deathy. How about a fictional name like 'Waldheim'?


    I'm quite torn about what to name it now. I partly agree with Deathly and esspho, that using real world locations is unwise. But, Valves very own de_nuke has a big 'Harz' sign on it. I'll think about it some more, and decide what to do a bit later.

    Quote from Single
    • Making Fnuggi less OP (ideas for this one?)


    Send on VACation? Works every time


    On a more serious note, this looks like an interesting map. Is there a download available somewhere? Didn't came accross a link in this thread.


    Btw, what's wrong with de_neutron?

    Quote from Squad

    On a more serious note, this looks like an interesting map. Is there a download available somewhere? Didn't came accross a link in this thread.


    I put up a version on dropbox for the playtest, here. This is not the most recent version, and does not have all recent changes (see my previous post in this thread). When I feel confident enough, I'll put another download for playtesting, and I'll post a link to it in this thread.


    Quote from Squad

    Btw, what's wrong with de_neutron?


    Sorry, I was not specific enough earlier. I'm happy with the name of the map to be de_neutron, what I'm unsure about is to what name the facility within the map. The original name was supposed to 'Hidden Forest Research Reactor' translated into German, but I screwed that right up.

    Thanks for the download link, I will check it out


    Do you have a set region in mind for the level? I mean, does it have to be Germany, or could it maybe be all around the world?

    There is no strong reason it has to be set in Germany. The GSG-9 are an underused CT team, and de_overpass put in a few German-language props and signs I could use.

    If we talk realism, France has more reactors than Germany, but I'd still go for the German theme (Apparently, Nuke is located in Germany as well).


    For the name of the facility, I know where you wanna go with the name. "Schwarzwald" would just refer to a real place and might set the expectations for the theme to a different level.
    In case you wanna keep it to a more anonymous approach, I'd rather use names that have no direct reference but still sound mysterious (kinda like bunker names for example).


    "Nordwald" (Lit.: North forest) / "Nordstedt" (Lit.: North town - dialect) / "Stahlberg" (Lit.: Steel mountain) / "Sturmwald" (Lit.: storm forest) / "Grünfels" (Lit.: green rock) / "Tiefenstein" (Lit.: deep rock) all sound like a research facility in Germany or have a nice sound to the name but without refering to an actual place nor having a literal meaning. They are just names that would go well with a hidden facility.


    Regarding the map itself, I have an issue with way the theme is applied to the layout. It seems like the way from the courtyard to mid into, what essentially is the reactor core, is too short and just very plain. Removing the corridor from A to Mid would not only make sense, but also help with the gameplay (less intersections at mid). Keep the balcony at A but have it connect to the CT-A connector instead and just leave it as a vantage point rather than an entrance. I'd also block the door way in mid closest to T spawn and force Ts to go the path towards B into mid. Ts arrive at mid before the CTs and can already utilize the entire bottom part of mid anyways. Just make it more controllable and less spread for cleaner game play.

    Quote from Vaya

    How about korea/asia?

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=…20plant%20korea

    it's in the news just now and I think the reactor shapes are intresting...


    If I had this level of success translating into German, imagine how I'd go translating into Korean



    I considered setting it in France. If I have too much trouble setting it in Germany, France was my second option. Ultimately, I don't think it matters all too much, providing the map looks good and plays well. Thanks a lot for the list of names, I may ultimately use one of these.


    Quote from Mvllsk

    Regarding the map itself, I have an issue with way the theme is applied to the layout. It seems like the way from the courtyard to mid into, what essentially is the reactor core, is too short and just very plain. Removing the corridor from A to Mid would not only make sense, but also help with the gameplay (less intersections at mid). Keep the balcony at A but have it connect to the CT-A connector instead and just leave it as a vantage point rather than an entrance. I'd also block the door way in mid closest to T spawn and force Ts to go the path towards B into mid. Ts arrive at mid before the CTs and can already utilize the entire bottom part of mid anyways. Just make it more controllable and less spread for cleaner game play.

    Making A-site balcony/heaven accessible from CT-spawn is a good idea, and it's something I haven't considered before. Thank you very much for your ideas.

    I'm sorry for my long absence, I've moved cities, and have been without internet for almost a month. Without the distractions of the world wide web, I was able to put a lot of time into mapping!


    I have completely recreated Neutron. I started a brand new .vmf, and re-built Neutron to be bigger, more open, and most importantly, much much simpler. The Mapcore playtest I got was very helpful, and really showed me a lot about how the map was played.


    I won't go through a before-and-after set, as the map is barely comparable. You can go back to the first post to see what it looked like last time it was playtested. For now, I'll just show you all screenshots.


    Mid, from CT Side:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ddYxMIP.jpg]


    Mid, from T-Side

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/crNlQAi.jpg]


    T-Spawn:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/DZFu8TZ.jpg]


    Big Room (leads to Lockers, A-Site from T-spawn):

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/rW55GEf.jpg]


    Locker Room (leads to A-site, mid, from big room):

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/XJEAf4X.jpg]


    A-Site:
    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/DYM7KMG.jpg]


    Courtyard (eventually leads to B-site, from T-spawn):

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/FTZTCo1.jpg]


    Long Hall (leads to mid and B-site, from courtyard):

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/F74NqX9.jpg]


    B-Site:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ScREQco.jpg]


    Overview:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/hp4fBR9.png]


    I could talk for days about the design choices, what I have in mind etc, but I'll leave all of that until after I get a Mapcore playtest. All of the upcoming slots are booked out, so I'm waiting on the next schedule to be put out before I book a playtest. When I get a time and date, I'll post it here. The version that you guys play may be slightly different to what you see here, because I have some other playtests with friends that I'm going to do first. Any intial thoughts on the changes to the layout and the aesthetic would be greatly appreciated.


    Thanks everyone!

    Long time lurker here , being an oldschool mapper myself, I just had to make an account and give my 5 cents worth


    I must say that the quality of alot (well thought out) maps on here at Mapcore, they are a breath of fresh air... With that said...

    I really like the simplicity of your map but as always, there are things that could be better such as the low yet wide orange door ways, (need to be taller). Some room ceilings are way too low, (making rooms look really crowded) raise those abit. As for rooms, most of the times, they can have be 256 units and/or above, nothing wrong with that since you can always decorate and detail rooms vertically making them look really good.

    I ran around your map for a good 30 mins timing rotations from site to site and everything is looking promising with only a few tweaks needed here and there. Below are my suggestions.

    Album: http://imgur.com/a/tnYFk

    About my squeeky door suggestion, you could play around with the idea, nothing that I feel is a must, just a thought.

    Lastly, I apologize for all of the underscores in the descriptions, I took them from the screenshots I made and couldnt be arsed to remove them all when making the album

    Again, feels like a simple map that have lots of potential

    //8bit

    I was very confused as to how you were able to play my map, then I realised I left the workshop entry public after uploading it to my server. The version you played as the version that I was testing with my friends, and it had a few issues which won't be in the version I submit for the Mapcore playtest (such as that errant bomb pallet on A-site!)


    I had a look at the imgur album, some of those suggestions stand out to me as good ideas, which I will probably implement, others I might need to think about. Thanks a lot for your feedback!

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