Mapcore's UE4 Whitebox Challenge

Thanks for the link, Leigh!

And yeah, progress screenshots are always a nice to see.

Do we make a thread each here? Or just post screenshots in this topic/in the 3D forum?

I'd put them here for sure

No time for me
good luck to the rest

I am a little busy this week, but... I am up for this!

Let's Map!

Ok, I'll go first then!

Obviously worth mentioning that this is still very much a work in progress type update here.

I've decided to make a small CTF map for this challenge, after some research playing some of the older Unreal games for a few hours (any excuse really) I decided the best bet was to keep the map symmetrical, that way I could avoid cases of one side having an advantage over the other and it's also more in keeping with the classic feel of Unreal Tournament.

After messing around in photoshop for a short while I came up with the following...

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/yOrfMdX.png]

A basement floor that sits below the main area and is connected by two ramps leading to the flag rooms. The central area is a long narrowish hallway with ramps up either side and pillars blocking line of sight.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/nIybLiT.png]

The ground floor, the ramps shown here actually lead up to the second floor. The bases and spawn points are seperated from the flags slightly as I thought this could be interesting rather than having to storm right into the enemies main area. The middle of the room has a lower section that may be flooded to waist height with water slowing down anyone who takes this route. As it's the quickest and most direct route it makes sense to me that it should also be the most dangerous. As this doesn't leave much of an area between the two flag points however I might come back to this later and spread the map out a bit. The thin area at the back of each base leads up a short ramp to a vantage point that almost directly over looks the other teams ramp and base entrance area. Both of these areas also have line of sight on each other as well, so if one team is being pinned in their base they can use the same tactic to stop the other team.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/1mPwXe1.png]

Finally the top floor, each side contains a whole that players can use to drop down into the flag rooms which can be great for an ambush from either team as well as a good way of defending your flag at the last second. The bridge in the middle has line of sight down to either sides ramp area in the main room, and if the central area was full of water the player could easily jump down into it if needed.

Finally here are some in progress screenshots.

One of the bases entrances, pretty empty at the moment will probably add some obstacles or something soon or maybe expand it backwards some to make it bigger.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/VxRSmVf.png]

Moving backwards from there you can see the ramp leading up to the second floor, currently it ramps up from the side as well although I might change this later by replacing it with a bit more wall to offer more protection straight out of the base. The doorway on the left leads to the flag area for this team.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/81b0DCe.png]

Pulled back even further now you can see the entire platform area of the red team from the blue teams identical platform as well as the two vantage points and the bridge running above.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/5dgoXid.png]

Inside one of the flag rooms, I was a little worried that someone could put their back to the wall here and defend it indefinitely but hopefully the ramp entrance from the left, main entrance from the right and the hole from the upper floor on the right should be enough to stop this being a problem?

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/qIc5PSh.png]

This shot shows midway down the ramp mentioned above, going up the ramp from here would take you into the flag room, while going down to the left will take you into the basement level and the extended corridor.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/DMEg7Ao.png]

In the far right of this shot you can see the ramp we just came down from in the screenshot above. This room is mirrored so that in order to make it up to the other teams side of the map you will have to cross right across the middle of this room at some point.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/O7LxZfs.png]

Another view of this room.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/UtxU0tL.png]

A view of the top floor after coming up a ramp from one of the bases and moving forward slightly. I made the area around the hole slightly lower down thinking it might make it a little easier for players to get down it without getting killed to quickly by people defending the base. This floor feels like it needs the most work to me though and I might simply rework the whole thing.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/AEdos3Z.png]

Another view of the top floor this time showing the bridge more and a view down into the main area.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/Bb8svFI.png]

Overall I think it's going ok so far, I would love to hear some feedback from you all though. My main concern is simply that maybe it's too small? Maybe it would work as a 4v4 map rather than anything much larger as it could just be chaotic. I'm also considering lowering the railings down slightly so players have more chance to shoot at each other or maybe removing some of them completely. I also think I will need to go through and add some general clutter like large boxes etc to break up the level a little bit.

You may have noticed also that the lighting in the level seems a bit off. It's giving me a bit of trouble at the moment as while I might see this in the editor...

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/uC6bYE2.png]

(overly bright I know...) when you play the game the exact same shot gives you this...

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/3uCJKnv.png]

I'm getting this error when I'm building my lights which is probably the answer but I've yet to figure it out.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ecL2oUM.png]

Anyway, that's my mammoth update. I'd love to get some feedback from you all.

Thanks!

Quote

I'm getting this error when I'm building my lights which is probably the answer but I've yet to figure it out.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ecL2oUM.png]

you made a static mesh out of some brushes or import a mesh ? if so, you need a second uv channel on it/them for the lightmap

(Edit your static mesh, Window > Generate Unique Uv's)

WTF my internet is crashing when I try to download UT #sadness

Quote from Mistral

you made a static mesh out of some brushes or import a mesh ? if so, you need a second uv channel on it/them for the lightmap

(Edit your static mesh, Window > Generate Unique Uv's)

Thanks for that, I'd brought in an exported plane to use, deleted that and it seems to have done the job.

Time for a quick update? Sure ok why not.

I took the bridge on the top floor and decided to split it in two along the walls instead. I prefer it this way, it gives players on the middle level longer to take a shot at people on the upper floor and from more angles.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/R81vaxW.png]

I've also taken out the whole floor from the middle level and replaced it with a bridge like section that connects the two ramps. I might update the ramps to fit this better but I think this is a good change also, bringing all three levels of the map into the fight at once.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/aMuUIwP.png]

The flag locations now also have an extra area on the left where the wall used to be. I was a little worried players could simply stick to the corner and cover all three entries to the room, so by taking out the corner and replacing it with a 4th entry it should keep people on their toes. It also gives players who enter via the ramp a second option of how to get up to the flag.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/6C178L7.png]

The second ramp is however visible from the top floor so it's not a 100% safe route for them either!

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/WHdFGNf.png]

I'll probably hold off on updating in this post for a while now (or at least until someone else does :X)

Any thoughts or feedback would be helpful as always though!

If you can use Open Broadcast Software (OBS) or some other video capture software to do a run-through video, that would be very helpful to see how the movement and scaling of the map will work. From what I have gathered it seems that this is also the preferred method of demonstration on the official Unreal Tournament forums as well. As for being the only person working on a map--I guarantee you you are not (I have a floor plan I am finalizing at the moment before I move into 3D).

I saw the grid sizes were multiples of 10 instead of powers of 2 and I nearly had a stroke

Quote from Leigh

you made a static mesh out of some brushes or import a mesh ? if so, you need a second uv channel on it/them for the lightmap

(Edit your static mesh, Window > Generate Unique Uv's)

Thanks for that, I'd brought in an exported plane to use, deleted that and it seems to have done the job.

Time for a quick update? Sure ok why not.

I took the bridge on the top floor and decided to split it in two along the walls instead. I prefer it this way, it gives players on the middle level longer to take a shot at people on the upper floor and from more angles.

I've also taken out the whole floor from the middle level and replaced it with a bridge like section that connects the two ramps. I might update the ramps to fit this better but I think this is a good change also, bringing all three levels of the map into the fight at once.

The flag locations now also have an extra area on the left where the wall used to be. I was a little worried players could simply stick to the corner and cover all three entries to the room, so by taking out the corner and replacing it with a 4th entry it should keep people on their toes. It also gives players who enter via the ramp a second option of how to get up to the flag.

The second ramp is however visible from the top floor so it's not a 100% safe route for them either!

I'll probably hold off on updating in this post for a while now (or at least until someone else does :X)

Any thoughts or feedback would be helpful as always though!

Wow, I wrote you some feedback last night but I think I forgot to submit it!

But yes, like Sigma said, grab OBS and make a twitch account. You can then broadcast your work to Twitch and then export a video to YouTube. It will be much easier for people to give you feedback when we can get a sense of scale and how easy it is to move around the environment.

Some things to consider:

• How many players is the map intended for?
  
  • From the screenshots it look like it may be too small for a 5v5? (Again, hard to judge scale at the moment)
• What is the timings like getting from one flag room to the next?
  
  • If this time is too fast then people will have trouble retrieving their flag before it gets captured.
  • It's probably easy for players on the higher level to get down to defend their flag, but how long does it take for people to get up from the bottom level? Might be worth installing some elevators or teleporters?
• Do you plan on putting extra cover around the level?
  
  • Do you have room to do this?
  • What about cover for people on lower levels? People above generally have an advantage over those below, will you try to balance this?
• Are you planning any advanced routes through your level?
  
  • For example, you can dodge off of a wall to get to a higher location.
  • Some sloped walls can be "surfed" when dodged into, any plans for these? They could be quite fun when moving down in the level.
  • There's gameplay videos of the above two points on youTube, I had a quick search but couldn't find them. Might be worth having a little dig for them.

You've definitely got off to a good start though!

I'll also be starting a map later this week or early next week. So you're definitely not alone, Leigh!

Is it possible for us to create our own threads in the challenge forum? Or create a sub forum within the challenge forum. I think if everyone is posting their progress in here it will be hard for us to keep track and give feedback properly.

Quote from Beck

you made a static mesh out of some brushes or import a mesh ? if so, you need a second uv channel on it/them for the lightmap

(Edit your static mesh, Window > Generate Unique Uv's)

Thanks for that, I'd brought in an exported plane to use, deleted that and it seems to have done the job.

Time for a quick update? Sure ok why not.

I took the bridge on the top floor and decided to split it in two along the walls instead. I prefer it this way, it gives players on the middle level longer to take a shot at people on the upper floor and from more angles.

I've also taken out the whole floor from the middle level and replaced it with a bridge like section that connects the two ramps. I might update the ramps to fit this better but I think this is a good change also, bringing all three levels of the map into the fight at once.

The flag locations now also have an extra area on the left where the wall used to be. I was a little worried players could simply stick to the corner and cover all three entries to the room, so by taking out the corner and replacing it with a 4th entry it should keep people on their toes. It also gives players who enter via the ramp a second option of how to get up to the flag.

The second ramp is however visible from the top floor so it's not a 100% safe route for them either!

I'll probably hold off on updating in this post for a while now (or at least until someone else does :X)

Any thoughts or feedback would be helpful as always though!

Wow, I wrote you some feedback last night but I think I forgot to submit it!

But yes, like Sigma said, grab OBS and make a twitch account. You can then broadcast your work to Twitch and then export a video to YouTube. It will be much easier for people to give you feedback when we can get a sense of scale and how easy it is to move around the environment.

Some things to consider:

• How many players is the map intended for?
  
  • From the screenshots it look like it may be too small for a 5v5? (Again, hard to judge scale at the moment)
• What is the timings like getting from one flag room to the next?
  
  • If this time is too fast then people will have trouble retrieving their flag before it gets captured.
  • It's probably easy for players on the higher level to get down to defend their flag, but how long does it take for people to get up from the bottom level? Might be worth installing some elevators or teleporters?
• Do you plan on putting extra cover around the level?
  
  • Do you have room to do this?
  • What about cover for people on lower levels? People above generally have an advantage over those below, will you try to balance this?
• Are you planning any advanced routes through your level?
  
  • For example, you can dodge off of a wall to get to a higher location.
  • Some sloped walls can be "surfed" when dodged into, any plans for these? They could be quite fun when moving down in the level.
  • There's gameplay videos of the above two points on youTube, I had a quick search but couldn't find them. Might be worth having a little dig for them.

You've definitely got off to a good start though!

I'll also be starting a map later this week or early next week. So you're definitely not alone, Leigh!

Is it possible for us to create our own threads in the challenge forum? Or create a sub forum within the challenge forum. I think if everyone is posting their progress in here it will be hard for us to keep track and give feedback properly.

Thanks for the feedback Beck, definitely gave me a lot to think about.

I've uploaded a short video using the program you mentioned to youtube to help give the scale of it. You can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5scAzfaZCM (it's processing atm so the quality might be pretty low and my edits wouldn't of taken effect yet.)

I timed the quickest route from flag room to flag room and it came in at 11.4 seconds. I'm guessing that's too fast. Even though I imagine the main route will always be very congested and could cause an issue for that best case scenario sort of run I should probably do something to fix it. I guess my options are to remove the bridge from the centre forcing people to go up or down to get back to base or to push the bases further away from each other and add more in between.... hmm, choices.

As for cover in my level I had intended to do a pass further down the line adding in more cover options when I was happy with the general layout. I may have to hold off on that for a bit longer though. Also not really sure to do about cover for the bottom floor from attackers above.

Finally I am contemplating adding some jump pads up from the basement floors to the walkways near the ramps on the middle floor. That should make it easier for those on the bottom floor to quickly get back up and protect flags.

Thanks again for the feedback, I'll probably start my own thread in the submissions board soon rather than continue to spam up this thread :3

Quote from Beck

• Are you planning any advanced routes through your level?
  
  • For example, you can dodge off of a wall to get to a higher location.
  • Some sloped walls can be "surfed" when dodged into, any plans for these? They could be quite fun when moving down in the level.
  • There's gameplay videos of the above two points on youTube, I had a quick search but couldn't find them. Might be worth having a little dig for them.

These are some good points for people who aren't experts with UT (I didn't know about the sloped walls thing for instance). Thanks!

I too will be starting a level once I sync up the UT Game...later this week when new PC parts arrive I think (trying to move around the viewports at ~10fps is a little rough)

Quote from TarrySruman

I saw the grid sizes were multiples of 10 instead of powers of 2 and I nearly had a stroke

Anyone with UDK / UE4 Experience comment on this ? Was wondering about wrapping my mind around multiples of 10 or converting the editor to powers of 2... If I choose power of 10, what are some scale sizes commonly referenced in UE4? (Player Heights, Crouch, Etc)

well, even in crysis we use meters, cm's etc, the actual metrics for gameplay are quite lose really you don't have to be cm accurate.

What really matters is the grid, for alignment, just change it to what works for you like it did in hammer. Textures are obviously still powers of 2, but as a designer you don't need to worry about tiling textures as much as you did in the past.

I'm whipping a map together for UT, first thing I did was take a look at the game and work out some general rules, how far you can jump, how high you can jump, how how does a ceiling have to be above the player before you hit your head. These are the metrics that matter. Just remember, that they might be changed as this UT is still WIP, hence why doing a white box challenge at this point is a good call.

The grid size is powers of 10, but the texture sizes are still powers of 2. The UT system is entirely in centimeters, so if you are doing any mesh work just change your units set-up to centimeters. As for player heights etc. . . the approximate height of a player character is 182 cm tall (although my conversion rounded it up to 183 ).

If someone started a standards map *cough*Chris*cough* (heights, jump distances, fall damage distances, etc. . .) and released it I would bet all my money that it would go over very well with the level design folks. My guess right now is that because the major UT systems are still using old UT3 assets that they are going to be sticking very close to the scale found there. I would take a look at the WIP maps included with UT though to help guide you in your designs.

Hehe, I'm not making a metrics map and only measured a few, as with all this stuff, it's more about feel - if you can make a jump somebody else can, if you think it's too tight because you miss a leap then it probably is, unless your intention is a skill jump. If this was a cover shooter, or had complex ai behaviors and animations then you'd need more concrete metrics - but right now in UT I will just experiment.

My first level was created in the power of 2 rather than 10 but I plan for my next level to work with metrics for no other reason than to follow the standards they are putting forth. Just another weird thing in the pile of weird things in the life of a level designer I suppose.