DE_88mm (working title) WIP thread

Hey guys. Firstly, thanks for the play-test tonight, it was very enlightening to see how real people played this map (very differently to bots, but no surprises there!). Some of the criticisms were expected and and others I hadn't thought about, but they were all very helpful! I hope we can continue the discussion in this thread, which I'll aim to keep up to date regularly as I progress.

For those who weren't in the playtest, the version played tonight can be downloaded here! Please do have a run around and let me know your thoughts.

Now for some pictures to recap:

[Blocked Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/text_fish/de_88mm_overview280414_zpsfe6de038.png]

This is the overview that you would see in the current build if I'd packed the BSP right!

[Blocked Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/text_fish/de_88mm_overview_annotated_290414_zps86100b03.png]

And with some annotations to make more sense of it. The red stars show entrances to "Underpass" and the white stars show entrances to "Upstairs".

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3334097529769094790/23FDE8842C6B8937A75CE6251CB03585F63109B5/]

Bombsite B seen from above Middle

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3334097529769088187/04E9318B7F21FC34A6933A097B3B6A3CD38AE50E/]

A Bombsite with Double-Doors (DD in overview) below.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3334097529769085242/15AFF5F3E2E0C3FC79F73DA5745ED3D987A033DF/]

Middle, with Catwalk on the upper left and bombsite B distant right.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/3334097529769080332/C8576180E74450D787FEE054E4BBD0894D18FAAE/]

Underpass from T-side entrance, looking towards windows with entrance to Staircase on the right.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/3334097529769082310/BCB456D9700FD3EC0822C532709218955C4203EC/]

Underpass seen from windows. Steps to the right lead to Bombsite B.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3334097529769078440/E12BD0FC33D9229F930DA987A212E8A374D58654/]

Bridge in foreground. Underpass and "Side" to the right, T-Spawn to lower left and A-site top left. Steps and ladder in middle lead from Double Doors to Upstairs and Stairwell.

So ever since I decided to design a level around the idea of a bombsite really close to T-Spawn but out of reach I knew that it would divide opinion, so I have no doubt that it will never be really popular with the more "traditional" players, but level design wouldn't be fun if I didn't try out new gameplay styles, so much of my work to come will be in balancing the map more in T's favour than it is right now. I believe the two rounds played tonight ended on 7-8 and 3-8 in CT's favour, but the overwhelming opinion seemed to be that T's felt somewhat "oppressed" in the early stages of a round, due to the CT's achieving high ground too early, and long sniper routes from both bombsites. The options I plan to play around with tomorrow are:

• Move CT spawn to B site so they can't reach A site so quickly.
• Move T-Spawn up to ruins area and build huts/cover around them so that they're less exposed early on.
• Provide more cover on bridge from underpass windows, as well as smaller cover to dash between on side leading down to underpass.
• Block the underpass window closest to CT-Spawn and place high-vis background behind the other window so that snipers are easier to spot.

More general things on my to-do list:

• Cover up irritating peep-holes.
• Make wire fences separating middle from connector in to solid wall.
• Extend metal catwalk below A-Bombsite further around the site to make the site feel larger and reduce incidents of team-mates knocking each other off in solid mode.
• Generally increase the brightness/warmness of the sunlight.
• Fences around water/cliffs to catch clumsy players/bots.

I think the above changes will hopefully address most of the problems mentioned, although I may have missed some comments amidst the thrill of the fight so please do add suggestions and other feedback to this thread!

Here are some changes I'm thinking about, but not sure if they're really necessary at the moment:

• Get rid of Side-Hall to reduce complexity of B-Site when defending. It seems underused anyway.
• Move partition between "Middle" and "Connector" so that "Stairwell" leads to Middle instead of Connector.

Thanks again for your time.

Thanks Malachi! The cliffs will probably be the very last thing I fix, partly because I keep adjusting the gameplay area around them but also because I absolutely loathe displacements.

Here are a few progress shots to show the direction I'm going:

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3318337467244798734/4F64B487A373D3EBF8D3EEEDA45CE1BBA72EEC74/]I've rotated the bridge slightly to allow T's to reach cover faster. You can also see the new T-Spawn in the background, lifted up on to the cliff and given some more substantial cover. And pretty party lights, which are pretty but may end up getting the axe if they jar too much with the theme.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3318337467244806815/31D7196422B168043FDF19E7EC6E4F2D0BFD9619/]

This is "Upstairs" which is now a one way drop for T's since I removed a catwalk from CT side. Happily this means I can introduce a little more darkness, although I'll probably still lighten it up a little bit.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3318337467244807938/3BC225358DB6F5C9451091733F10B7E2B5FE4A17/]Connector, with ladder to "Upstairs". The old chainlink fences have been replaced by corrugated iron to simplify sightlines.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3318337467244810614/367C03A8AE508713AD69C1E233C6ED7DA56C7827/]Here's a view down "middle" from the CT approach. CT Catwalk used to cut across it.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/3318337467244809255/C34FE7E170E736D1342EB6697C118382E746415F/]I reduced some of the clutter at B-site (now also CT-spawn) and put some lights underneath. I like the glow they produce but it's possibly a bit too "shiny" for the rest of the theme.

[Blocked Image: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3318337467244804654/866B05DAE7FDF685AFE5F875B9217DCAA2E772C2/]Last and most definitely least is this shot of middle and double doors viewed from "lobby". Not much has changed gameplay-wise, but I've been working on this bit this morning so it gets an honorable mention.

[Blocked Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/text_fish/de_88mm_v2_blargh_zpsabc3a8af.png]

Oh and here's the latest overview! The most notable change to me is the catwalk beneath A-site, which now extends further around to catch clumsy players and has been extended to create an alternate route.

Most of the boosts from T-Spawn towards A-site have been nerfed. I find routes like that fun, but I get the impression most players see them as exploitative if they're not signposted for everybody, and also they reduce focus on the chokepoints.

The righthand door of "Lobby" has now been partially blocked so it can't be traversed but CT's can lob grenades through to T-ramp.

All in all gameplay (with bots) feels a lot tighter at the moment thanks to the moved spawns but also cleaning up sightlines, blocking peepholes and tweaking cover. Obviously a playtest with real, hard working folk is the only way to be sure so I'll "book" one when I get some time in an evening.

Thanks for reading/looking.

Thanks Tomm, I totally agree about the yellow. I had a faint yellow ambient, so I've changed that to a saturated blue-gray and upped the brightness as you suggest. Still needs a lot of tweaking, but it's less of a yellow blob now!

Yep, definitely gonna destroy some more stuff! I've been going a bit crazy on displacements for that though, so might make a bunch of modular "broken wall" edge props to sling about on the high points where players will be paying less attention to detail.

Not quite. I still open up the VMF from time to time and I have some ideas for changes, but unfortunately I was somewhat sloppy when laying down the original brushwork so I spend as much time cleaning/rationalizing it as I do adding new stuff to it. I also went all out on de_secret for the Mapcore/Reddit competition (before I realized it would be acceptable to enter 88mm!) so most of my hammertime goes in to that these days. Both will be finished someday, I hope!